8.9.1943 in Tarent gesprengt

[TD]

8.9.1943 in Tarent gesprengt

Um 04:00 sprengt die Bordflakbesatzung des italienischen Zerstörers CLIO zusammen mit
einem Sprengkommando 5 Schiffe mit 18.000 t, während der Hafen von italienischen Truppen
eingeschlossen wird. Nach mehreren für den Gegner blutigen Gefechten (eigene Verluste: 1
Toter, mehrere Verwundete) ergeben Verhandlungen das geordnete Abrücken der deutschen
Truppen zum Bahnhof.

Kann Jemand ermitteln welche Schiffe es waren ??

Vielen Dank

Theo

[Iceman]

Hello Theo,

I'd like to help but I cannot undersand german.

Best regards

Marco G.

[t-geronimo]

It is about five ships with altogether 18000 t that were blown up at 08.09.1943 at 4 o'clock in the morning in Tarent by the AA crew of the italian destroyer CLIO and another unit.

Do you know the names of the ships?

[AndreasB]

Clio had a German AA crew? That doesn't sound right?

All the best

Andreas

[Iceman]

Gernonimo,

I don't have the situation of the ship in Taranto on september 8th, altough I have the situation of september 1st and 12th. The only merchant ships that are in both list are:

- motorvessel SESTRIERE
- motorvessel CITTA' DI ALESSANDRIA
- motorvessel (big fishing boat) GENEPESCA I
- cargo ship SEZZE (ex french ESPIGUETTE)
- tanker RONDINE

About CLIO.....she and LIBRA, CALLIOPE, SAGITTARIO and PALLADE of the same class (Spica), were embarking a 20 mm flakvierling gun, manned with german personnel, like all the other flakvierling in service on italian ships.

Best Regards

Marco Ghiglino

[t-geronimo]

Translation:

Marco hat keine Informationen zum 08.09. Aber am 01. und 02.09.1943 lagen die o.g. Schiffe in Tarent.
Und alle genannten italienischen Zerstörer hatten einen 2-cm-Vierling, der mit deutschem Personal besetzt war - genau wie alle anderen 2-cm-Vierlinge auf italienischen Schiffen.



Many thanks, Marco.

[AndreasB]

Grazie Marco.

A presto

Andreas

[Urs Heßling]

moin,

.. einen 2-cm-Vierling, der mit deutschem Personal besetzt war - genau wie alle anderen 2-cm-Vierlinge auf italienischen Schiffen.

.. was meiner Erinnerung nach auch auf das auf einigen Booten eingebaute S-Gerät zutraf.

Gruß, Urs

[kgvm]

Thorsten,
Marco has written: "situation of september 1st and 12th", while you're translating "am 01. und 02.09.1943"

[kgvm]

"that were blown up"
I suspect these vessel weren't blown up or sunk, but only sabotaged/damaged, at least they are all missing in Navi Mercantili perdute (2e Edizione).

[Iceman]

Klaus,

I'm agree with you. In my situation report nevertheless are all "non pronte", not ready so probably damaged but afloat.

I'm also a bit confuse about the time because at 04.00 of september 8th the Armistice was still "secret"!!

MG

[Urs Heßling]

moin,

- motorvessel SESTRIERE

KG´s Vermutung

I suspect these vessel weren't blown up or sunk, but only sabotaged/damaged, ..

wird zumindest teilweise bestätigt durch (is at least partially confirmed by)
http://warsailors.com/forum/read.php?1,49906,49916#msg-49916

Gruß, Urs

[kgvm]

"I'm also a bit confuse about the time because at 04.00 of september 8th the Armistice was still "secret"!!"

You're right, Marco, but it's just a mistake of Theo, the KTB posted says 09.09.1943, but the date is on the second page only.
By the way, someone can correct the date in the topic??

[de domenico]

The merchant ships were all at the Franco Tosi yard under repair or refit. None was lost.
SESTRIERE 7,991 grt + CITTA' DI ALESSANDRIA 2,498 grt + GENEPESCA I 1,630 grt + SEZZE ex ESPIGUETTE (returned to France at Algiers in 1944) 1,109 grt + RONDINE 6,468 grt make a grand total of 19,696 grt, not very far from Theo's 18,000.
All of them survived the war without serious damage.
As for CLIO, as soon as 17 Sept. 1943 she was sent from Brindisi to Corfu with supplies  for the Italian garrison together with SIRIO under RAdm. Galati, being however recalled very soon under the suspicious British counter-orders; on 19/20  Sept. 1943 she was again  sailed from Brindisi, this time  to  Santi Quaranta in Albania together with SIRIO, MS 33 and Mn PROBITAS, there to embark 1,750 Italian troops being evacuated and taken back to Brindisi; on 6 Oct. 1943 she sailed from Augusta for Taranto with corvette URANIA  escorting a British tanker (the first such case for Regia Marina warships), which however  hit a mine on 7 Oct., and only reached Taranto with tug assistance. All of which shows that the torpedo-boat had suffered no significant damage, if any.
Sources: USMM (Giuseppe Fioravanzo) , "La Marina dall'8 settembre 1943 alla fine del conflitto", 1962; Brouard-Mercier-Saibène, "La Marine Marchande Française 1939-1945", JYB, 2009.

[AndreasB]

moin,

.. einen 2-cm-Vierling, der mit deutschem Personal besetzt war - genau wie alle anderen 2-cm-Vierlinge auf italienischen Schiffen.

.. was meiner Erinnerung nach auch auf das auf einigen Booten eingebaute S-Gerät zutraf.

Gruß, Urs

Ja, genau.

http://rommelsriposte.com/2009/07/15/german-antisubmarine-equipment-on-italian-vessels/

Alles Gute

Andreas