Schiffsentwürfe

Begonnen von Huszar, 25 Juni 2005, 19:54:33

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Huszar

Hallo!

hier werden unsere Entwürfe für ein Großkampfschiff für den Ozeanischen Zufuhrskrieg morgen um 19:00 gepostet.

Die Vorgaben stelle ich noch rein.


mfg

alex
Reginam occidere nolite timere bonum est si omnes consentiunt ego non contradico
1213, Brief von Erzbischof Johan von Meran an Palatin Bánk von Bor-Kalán

Lutscha

Morgen um 1900 bin ich unterwegs, darf ich schon posten? ^^
Das ist ja barer Unsinn, wenn das stimmen würde, hätten SIE ja recht!

Typisch deutsche Argumentationsweise.

Huszar

Mah mals Morgen, bevor du losziehsts.

Hauptsache, wir heben wenig Zeit, abzugucken  :D

(Bin selber schon fertig)

Für alle Mitleser, hier die Vorgaben nochmals:

Zitat:Verdrängung: 25.000 Tonnen Standart maximum

Panzerung: Gürtel min. 200 mm, Deck: 100mm min, "Bulkhead" 50mm min (auf 75% der Länge)

Reichweite: 15.000 sm bei 18 Knoten
Geschwindiglkeit: min. 31,5 Knoten

Bewaffnung: 6*280mm, 12*sFLAK, 40*lFLAK, 8*Torpedorohre

+600 Tonnen Miscalaneus für Flugzeuge, Schnellboote, Reservetorpedos, Hirngespinste, usw

Nur die Vorhandenen Geschützte können verwendet werden (neue Türme vorstellbar)

Mindestens 3 Schrauben, da die Regel max. 50.000PS pro Schraube gilt. Wer 4 Schrauben haben möchte, bitte gern!

Keine "light vessels". Das macht die Sache erst interessant. Comp. strength muß 1,00 sein.

Kiellegung: 1935 (um die ersten Schiffe bei Kriegsausbruch zur Verfügung zu haben)



Transom-Heck ist erlaubt, neue Türme zu den Vorhandenen GEschützten können eingeführt werden.


mfg

alex
Reginam occidere nolite timere bonum est si omnes consentiunt ego non contradico
1213, Brief von Erzbischof Johan von Meran an Palatin Bánk von Bor-Kalán

Lutscha

Muuuh.

Was soll das mit der Flak genau bedeuten? Sind 12,8er, 3,7er doppel und 2cm Vierlinge erlaubt? (letztere sind fürs Gewicht eher unwichtig).
Und müssen es mindestens/maximal 12 schwere Flaks sein. oder dürfens auch so 8 *räusper* mehr sein? Und dürfen es auch mehr Flaks sein oder nicht? Ich meine jetzt nicht 1xx, aber eben ordentlich.
Das ist ja barer Unsinn, wenn das stimmen würde, hätten SIE ja recht!

Typisch deutsche Argumentationsweise.

Spee

@Lutscha,

hau rein!

Für den nächsten Entwurf sollten wir sowieso andere Bedingungen setzen. Die hier gemachten sind zu eng. Da kommen fast identische Schiffe raus.

Wie wäre für den nächsten Entwurf folgendes:

Schlachtschiff/Schlachtkreuzer 1940

30.000t standard / Wasserlinien- und Zitadellpanzer (ist schwieriger zu realisieren, deshalb) / 750t Zusatzgewicht, Hauptkaliber 11", 12", 13,5" 14", 15" oder 16", 10.000sm bei 15kn.
Alles andere ist frei! Das ist wirklich interessant, da jeder andere Vorstellungen haben wird und dann wird man sehen, wer eher defensiv oder offensiv baut. Einstelldatum wird ausgemacht.
Servus

Thomas

Suicide Is Not a War-Winning Strategy

Lutscha

Der neue Flak, äh Schlachtkreuzer Goeben.
Hat einer mehr Deckspanzerung? ^^
Macht imo auch mehr Sinn, als ein allzu starker GP, da nicht auf point blank gekämpft wird und man vor zu starken flüchtet und dann eher Decktreffer kassiert.

Goeben, Deutschland Schlachtkreuzer laid down 1939

Displacement:
   24.413 t light; 25.012 t standard; 29.954 t normal; 33.908 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   732,54 ft / 721,78 ft x 82,02 ft x 25,26 ft (normal load)
   223,28 m / 220,00 m x 25,00 m  x 7,70 m

Armament:
     8 - 11,02" / 280 mm guns (2x4 guns), 669,80lbs / 303,82kg shells, 1935 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
     20 - 5,04" / 128 mm guns (10x2 guns), 63,99lbs / 29,03kg shells, 1935 Model
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
     32 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (16x2 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     48 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (12x4 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 6.699 lbs / 3.039 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 0
   8 - 20,1" / 510 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10,2" / 260 mm   411,88 ft / 125,54 m   10,86 ft / 3,31 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 88% of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,97" / 50 mm   411,88 ft / 125,54 m   24,57 ft / 7,49 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10,2" / 260 mm   6,69" / 170 mm      6,30" / 160 mm
   2nd:   1,18" / 30 mm   0,79" / 20 mm            -
   3rd:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 5,91" / 150 mm, Conning tower: 7,87" / 200 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 149.435 shp / 111.479 Kw = 32,00 kts
   Range 15.000nm at 18,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 8.897 tons

Complement:
   1.137 - 1.479

Cost:
   £12,357 million / $49,429 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 837 tons, 2,8%
   Armour: 9.166 tons, 30,6%
      - Belts: 1.988 tons, 6,6%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 737 tons, 2,5%
      - Armament: 859 tons, 2,9%
      - Armour Deck: 5.419 tons, 18,1%
      - Conning Tower: 164 tons, 0,5%
   Machinery: 4.043 tons, 13,5%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9.766 tons, 32,6%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5.542 tons, 18,5%
   Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 2,0%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     52.406 lbs / 23.771 Kg = 78,2 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 7,1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,27
   Metacentric height 5,7 ft / 1,7 m
   Roll period: 14,4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,45
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, low quarterdeck
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0,701
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,80 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 30,37 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      27,89 ft / 8,50 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   24,61 ft / 7,50 m (23,62 ft / 7,20 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50%):      22,97 ft / 7,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   21,00 ft / 6,40 m (21,33 ft / 6,50 m before break)
      - Stern:      21,00 ft / 6,40 m
      - Average freeboard:   23,07 ft / 7,03 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 87,8%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 172,4%
   Waterplane Area: 49.598 Square feet or 4.608 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 122%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 141 lbs/sq ft or 687 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,98
      - Longitudinal: 1,13
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Das ist ja barer Unsinn, wenn das stimmen würde, hätten SIE ja recht!

Typisch deutsche Argumentationsweise.

Lutscha

Ich glaube, ich habe bei der Maschinerie was falsch gemacht...
Muss ich nochmal schauen.

Edit: Hmmm, nö ist dich i.O..
Das ist ja barer Unsinn, wenn das stimmen würde, hätten SIE ja recht!

Typisch deutsche Argumentationsweise.

Spee

@Lutscha,

nö, aber mein Schiff ist stabiler!!

"Yorck" , Deutschland Panzerschiff laid down 1935

Displacement:
   24.052 t light; 24.995 t standard; 29.988 t normal; 33.981 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   759,75 ft / 753,77 ft x 90,22 ft (Bulges 91,86 ft) x 27,07 ft (normal load)
   231,57 m / 229,75 m x 27,50 m (Bulges 28,00 m)  x 8,25 m

Armament:
     6 - 11,02" / 280 mm guns (2x3 guns), 669,80lbs / 303,81kg shells, 1935 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
     14 - 5,04" / 128 mm guns (7x2 guns), 63,99lbs / 29,02kg shells, 1935 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
     16 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (8x2 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     32 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 4.947 lbs / 2.244 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   8 - 21,0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9,84" / 250 mm   603,02 ft / 183,80 m   11,38 ft / 3,47 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 123% of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      1,97" / 50 mm   603,02 ft / 183,80 m   25,00 ft / 7,62 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9,84" / 250 mm   5,91" / 150 mm      3,94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   1,18" / 30 mm   1,18" / 30 mm            -
   3rd:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 4,72" / 120 mm, Conning tower: 3,94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 130.175 shp / 97.110 Kw = 31,50 kts
   Range 15.000nm at 18,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 8.986 tons

Complement:
   1.139 - 1.481

Cost:
   £9,566 million / $38,264 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 618 tons, 2,1%
   Armour: 8.950 tons, 29,8%
      - Belts: 2.765 tons, 9,2%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1.098 tons, 3,7%
      - Armament: 644 tons, 2,1%
      - Armour Deck: 4.360 tons, 14,5%
      - Conning Tower: 82 tons, 0,3%
   Machinery: 3.698 tons, 12,3%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10.186 tons, 34,0%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5.935 tons, 19,8%
   Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 2,0%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     63.748 lbs / 28.916 Kg = 95,2 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 10,3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,33
   Metacentric height 7,1 ft / 2,2 m
   Roll period: 14,5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 66 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,27
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,25

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low quarterdeck
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0,560
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,21 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 31,61 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1,64 ft / 0,50 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Forecastle (0%):   24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Mid (80%):      24,61 ft / 7,50 m
      - Quarterdeck (20%):   18,70 ft / 5,70 m (24,61 ft / 7,50 m before break)
      - Stern:      18,70 ft / 5,70 m
      - Average freeboard:   23,43 ft / 7,14 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 75,6%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 188,7%
   Waterplane Area: 49.889 Square feet or 4.635 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 137%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 144 lbs/sq ft or 702 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,98
      - Longitudinal: 1,22
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Servus

Thomas

Suicide Is Not a War-Winning Strategy

Spee

@Lutscha,

gegen dein Schiff trete ich gern an:

Shells per gun, main battery: 0  :)
Servus

Thomas

Suicide Is Not a War-Winning Strategy

Lutscha

Ja, und bei mir ist keine Munition für die SA an Bord, ka warum der die nicht an Bord gepackt hat... -_-
Toll, alles umsonst optimiert.
Das ist ja barer Unsinn, wenn das stimmen würde, hätten SIE ja recht!

Typisch deutsche Argumentationsweise.

Spee

@Lutscha,

würde den Typen sofort vor's Kriegsgericht stellen!!!
Servus

Thomas

Suicide Is Not a War-Winning Strategy

Lutscha

So, war doch was falsch beim Antrieb, da 1939 eingestellt war, jetzt ist weniger Panzerung drauf und die Geschwindigkeit 0,5kn langsamer.

Goeben, Deutschland Schlachtkreuzer laid down 1935

Displacement:
   24.066 t light; 25.000 t standard; 30.150 t normal; 34.270 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   732,54 ft / 721,78 ft x 82,02 ft x 25,26 ft (normal load)
   223,28 m / 220,00 m x 25,00 m  x 7,70 m

Armament:
     8 - 11,02" / 280 mm guns (2x4 guns), 669,80lbs / 303,81kg shells, 1935 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
     20 - 5,04" / 128 mm guns (10x2 guns), 63,99lbs / 29,02kg shells, 1935 Model
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
     32 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (16x2 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     48 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (12x4 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 6.699 lbs / 3.039 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 85
   8 - 20,1" / 510 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9,84" / 250 mm   415,52 ft / 126,65 m   10,86 ft / 3,31 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 89% of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,97" / 50 mm   415,52 ft / 126,65 m   24,57 ft / 7,49 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10,2" / 260 mm   6,69" / 170 mm      6,30" / 160 mm
   2nd:   1,18" / 30 mm   0,79" / 20 mm            -
   3rd:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 5,51" / 140 mm, Conning tower: 7,87" / 200 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 141.276 shp / 105.392 Kw = 31,50 kts
   Range 15.000nm at 18,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 9.270 tons

Complement:
   1.143 - 1.487

Cost:
   £10,730 million / $42,919 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 837 tons, 2,8%
   Armour: 8.771 tons, 29,1%
      - Belts: 1.926 tons, 6,4%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 744 tons, 2,5%
      - Armament: 859 tons, 2,8%
      - Armour Deck: 5.078 tons, 16,8%
      - Conning Tower: 164 tons, 0,5%
   Machinery: 4.014 tons, 13,3%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9.844 tons, 32,7%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6.084 tons, 20,2%
   Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 2,0%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     52.769 lbs / 23.935 Kg = 78,8 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 7,1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,28
   Metacentric height 5,8 ft / 1,8 m
   Roll period: 14,3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,45
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,04

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, low quarterdeck
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0,706
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,80 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 30,36 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 3,28 ft / 1,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      27,89 ft / 8,50 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   24,61 ft / 7,50 m (23,62 ft / 7,20 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50%):      22,97 ft / 7,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   21,00 ft / 6,40 m (21,33 ft / 6,50 m before break)
      - Stern:      21,00 ft / 6,40 m
      - Average freeboard:   23,07 ft / 7,03 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88,3%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 172,2%
   Waterplane Area: 49.805 Square feet or 4.627 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 125%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 141 lbs/sq ft or 691 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,99
      - Longitudinal: 1,13
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Das ist ja barer Unsinn, wenn das stimmen würde, hätten SIE ja recht!

Typisch deutsche Argumentationsweise.

Spee

@Lutscha,

na, wird doch!
Was haltet ihr von meinem Vorschlag. Keine zu engen Vorgaben und jeder bastelt mal seinen "Liebling". Schwieriger wäre ein 17.500t-Projekt, daher eigentlich auch interessanter.
Servus

Thomas

Suicide Is Not a War-Winning Strategy

Huszar

Na Hallo!

Ich hab gleich zwei Entwürfe, einmal 6*28, und 12 Torpedos, einmal 8*28, 8 Torpedos, dafür aber nur 10,5 sFLAK:

ZitatGneisenau, Germany Super-A-Kreuzer laid down 1935

Displacement:
   23 636 t light; 24 726 t standard; 29 671 t normal; 33 627 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   724,33 ft / 711,94 ft x 90,22 ft (Bulges 95,96 ft) x 26,90 ft (normal load)
   220,78 m / 217,00 m x 27,50 m (Bulges 29,25 m)  x 8,20 m

Armament:
     8 - 11,02" / 280 mm guns (4x2 guns), 669,80lbs / 303,82kg shells, 1935 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
     12 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns (6x2 guns), 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1935 Model
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     20 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (10x2 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1935 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     32 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (16x2 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     8 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 5 823 lbs / 2 641 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   8 - 21,0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8,27" / 210 mm   456,04 ft / 139,00 m   11,48 ft / 3,50 m
   Ends:   1,97" / 50 mm   131,23 ft / 40,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
     124,67 ft / 38,00 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   3,94" / 100 mm   452,76 ft / 138,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
     Main Belt covers 99 % of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      2,36" / 60 mm   590,55 ft / 180,00 m   21,33 ft / 6,50 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   6,10" / 155 mm   4,13" / 105 mm      4,13" / 105 mm
   2nd:   1,38" / 35 mm   1,38" / 35 mm      1,18" / 30 mm
   3rd:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -
   5th:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 4,33" / 110 mm, Conning tower: 2,56" / 65 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion motors,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 132 563 shp / 98 892 Kw = 31,50 kts
   Range 15 000nm at 18,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 8 902 tons

Complement:
   1 129 - 1 469

Cost:
   £10,008 million / $40,033 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 728 tons, 2,5 %
   Armour: 8 515 tons, 28,7 %
      - Belts: 2 700 tons, 9,1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1 101 tons, 3,7 %
      - Armament: 868 tons, 2,9 %
      - Armour Deck: 3 793 tons, 12,8 %
      - Conning Tower: 53 tons, 0,2 %
   Machinery: 3 766 tons, 12,7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10 027 tons, 33,8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6 035 tons, 20,3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 2,0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     50 740 lbs / 23 015 Kg = 75,8 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 8,8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,28
   Metacentric height 6,7 ft / 2,0 m
   Roll period: 15,6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,27
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0,98

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0,565
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,42 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 30,97 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1,64 ft / 0,50 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      29,53 ft / 9,00 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   27,89 ft / 8,50 m (20,67 ft / 6,30 m aft of break)
      - Mid (52 %):      20,01 ft / 6,10 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   19,36 ft / 5,90 m
      - Stern:      18,86 ft / 5,75 m
      - Average freeboard:   21,42 ft / 6,53 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81,3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 146,2 %
   Waterplane Area: 47 347 Square feet or 4 399 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 132 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 151 lbs/sq ft or 736 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,98
      - Longitudinal: 1,15
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

ZitatScharnhorst, Germany Super-A-Kreuzer laid down 1935

Displacement:
   22 991 t light; 23 984 t standard; 28 847 t normal; 32 737 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   712,85 ft / 700,46 ft x 88,58 ft (Bulges 93,50 ft) x 26,90 ft (normal load)
   217,28 m / 213,50 m x 27,00 m (Bulges 28,50 m)  x 8,20 m

Armament:
     6 - 11,02" / 280 mm guns (2x3 guns), 669,80lbs / 303,82kg shells, 1935 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     12 - 5,00" / 127 mm guns (6x2 guns), 62,50lbs / 28,35kg shells, 1935 Model
     Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     20 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (10x2 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1935 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     32 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (16x2 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     8 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns (2x4 guns), 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1935 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 4 809 lbs / 2 182 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150
   12 - 21,0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8,66" / 220 mm   456,04 ft / 139,00 m   11,48 ft / 3,50 m
   Ends:   1,97" / 50 mm   131,23 ft / 40,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
     113,19 ft / 34,50 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   3,94" / 100 mm   452,76 ft / 138,00 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      2,36" / 60 mm   597,11 ft / 182,00 m   21,33 ft / 6,50 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   6,10" / 155 mm   4,13" / 105 mm      4,13" / 105 mm
   2nd:   1,38" / 35 mm   1,38" / 35 mm      1,18" / 30 mm
   3rd:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -
   5th:   0,20" / 5 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 4,53" / 115 mm, Conning tower: 2,56" / 65 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion motors,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 135 499 shp / 101 082 Kw = 31,75 kts
   Range 15 000nm at 18,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 8 753 tons

Complement:
   1 106 - 1 438

Cost:
   £9,411 million / $37,644 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 601 tons, 2,1 %
   Armour: 8 380 tons, 29,1 %
      - Belts: 2 781 tons, 9,6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1 113 tons, 3,9 %
      - Armament: 574 tons, 2,0 %
      - Armour Deck: 3 860 tons, 13,4 %
      - Conning Tower: 52 tons, 0,2 %
   Machinery: 3 849 tons, 13,3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9 525 tons, 33,0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5 856 tons, 20,3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 635 tons, 2,2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     48 873 lbs / 22 168 Kg = 73,0 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 8,5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,24
   Metacentric height 6,2 ft / 1,9 m
   Roll period: 15,8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 58 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,27
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0,97

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0,573
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,49 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 30,66 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1,64 ft / 0,50 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      29,53 ft / 9,00 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   27,89 ft / 8,50 m (20,67 ft / 6,30 m aft of break)
      - Mid (52 %):      20,01 ft / 6,10 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   19,36 ft / 5,90 m
      - Stern:      18,86 ft / 5,75 m
      - Average freeboard:   21,42 ft / 6,53 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81,1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 137,8 %
   Waterplane Area: 46 089 Square feet or 4 282 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 134 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 146 lbs/sq ft or 715 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,98
      - Longitudinal: 1,20
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

Vier Drillings-Torpedosätzte, dafür +35 Tonnen Extragewicht in Kauf genommen.

Stabilität bewusst etwas heruntergenommen, um eine bessere Schiessplatform zu bekommen.

(Mein Favoriet wäre der Entwurf SH.

mfg

alex

PS: Die Vorgaben mussten so eng gefasst werden, um a, ein noch recht billiges Schiff zu basteln, dass sowohl SH, als auch die schweren Kreuzer ersetzten kann, b, eine Minimalbewaffnung vorzugeben, c, wirklich einen Schiff für den Zufuhrskrieg zu bekommen, und nicht einen für die Ostsee d, die tatsächlichen Möglichkeiten zu simulieren.

Soweit ich sehe, haben wir aus den Vorgaben recht unterschiedliche Schiffe zusammengesetzt.
Reginam occidere nolite timere bonum est si omnes consentiunt ego non contradico
1213, Brief von Erzbischof Johan von Meran an Palatin Bánk von Bor-Kalán

Lutscha

So, jetzt weiss ich auch, warum Spees Schiff mehr aushält und wie man das einstellt, wobei ich das nicht nutzen werde, weil es gegen das AoN-Prinzip verstösst. Btw, Dein Schiff hält mehr penetrating hits aus, bei mir gibts die dafür weniger.
Was bei meinem Entwurf fehlt, sind bulges, damit wird er etwas besser.
Das ist ja barer Unsinn, wenn das stimmen würde, hätten SIE ja recht!

Typisch deutsche Argumentationsweise.

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