Minefields in Gulf of Genoa Sep-Oct 43

Begonnen von Platon Alexiades, 19 Februar 2023, 20:36:03

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Platon Alexiades

Hello,

I am trying to find the positions of minefields laid in the Gulf of Genoa from 01.09.1943 to 15.10.1943. The KTBs of Brandenburg, Pommern, etc. mention at least 7 minefields laid at that time, some off Toulon and some in the Gulf of Genoa, but no positions.

Many thanks.

Platon

Urs Heßling

moin, Platon,

zählt das auch als "Golf von Genua" ?

05.10.1943 - 06.10.1943   Minenlegeunternehmung ,,Holzauge" (S 58 und S 151, S 153, S 156, S 158) vor Olbia, Rückmarsch nach Nettunia

09.10.1943 - 10.10.1943   Minenlegeunternehmung ,,Wiking" (S 58, S 60 und S 151, S 153) vor Ajaccio, Rückmarsch nach La Spezia (S 58, S 60) bzw. nach Toulon (S 151, S 153)

Gruß, Urs
"History will tell lies, Sir, as usual" - General "Gentleman Johnny" Burgoyne zu seiner Niederlage bei Saratoga 1777 im Amerikanischen Unabhängigkeitskrieg - nicht in Wirklichkeit, aber in George Bernard Shaw`s Bühnenstück "The Devil`s Disciple"

Platon Alexiades

Hello Urs,

Many thanks for your reply. My main interest in the Gulf of Genoa but I do not mind getting information of other areas in the Western Mediterranean. Do you have positions for these? I have not located a document giving the positions of minefields in this sector after the Italian Armistice.

Best regards,

Platon


t-geronimo

Brandenburg and Pommern started their minelaying operations on 15.09.1943 when they closed a gap of an already existing minefield at the western end of the Bonifacio Strait and laid another minefield at the eastern end of the Strait. According to war diary Marinekommando Italien this was the first minelaying operation in that area in september 1943.

After the loss of Brandenburg it was Pommern alone that laid another minefield, this time off Viareggio.

If you have other ships and times I can check war diaries of escorting ships like R-Boats etc.
Gruß, Thorsten

"There is every possibility that things are going to change completely."
(Captain Tennant, HMS Repulse, 09.12.1941)

Forum MarineArchiv / Historisches MarineArchiv

Urs Heßling

moin, Platon,

Zitat von: Platon Alexiades am 19 Februar 2023, 23:00:26
Do you have positions for these?
Exakte Positionen habe ich nicht, aber die Navigation des Anmarsches wird im KTB der 1. S-Division gut beschrieben. Demnach wurden
- die Minen vor Olbia direkt vor dem inneren Golf links unten im Quadrat CJ 4626 geworfen
- die Minen vor Ajaccio im innersten Teil der Bucht und in Nähe der Molen in CJ 4232 rechts unten geworfen

Gruß, Urs
"History will tell lies, Sir, as usual" - General "Gentleman Johnny" Burgoyne zu seiner Niederlage bei Saratoga 1777 im Amerikanischen Unabhängigkeitskrieg - nicht in Wirklichkeit, aber in George Bernard Shaw`s Bühnenstück "The Devil`s Disciple"

Platon Alexiades

Hello Urs and Thorsten,

Many thanks for the info. I also have in my notes the following:

12.09.1943: Pommern and Brandenburg near Toulon.
14.09.1943: Pommern and Brandenburg near Toulon.
18.09.1943: Pommern in Gulf of Genoa.
26.09.1943: Pommern in Gulf of Genoa.
27.09.1943: Pommern in Gulf of Genoa.
01.10.1943: Pommern and Minsch in Gulf of Genoa.
13.10.1943: Kehrwieder and Juminda off Ostia.

No precise positions! This is certainly incomplete. There must be somewhere a list giving exact positions. I have seen something like that for the Aegean.

Many thanks again.

Platon

t-geronimo

Zitat12.09.1943: Pommern and Brandenburg near Toulon.
14.09.1943: Pommern and Brandenburg near Toulon.
Both ships never laid any minefields near Toulon at that time. They only went several times to Toulon to top up with new mines for operations in the Gulf of Genua.
If you want, I can provide war diaries from both ships.

As stated above, their first minelaying operation was on 15.09.1943 in the Bonifacio Strait.


Zitat18.09.1943: Pommern in Gulf of Genoa.
Both Brandenburg and Pommern placed a minefield off La Spezia on that day.


Zitat26.09.1943: Pommern in Gulf of Genoa.
27.09.1943: Pommern in Gulf of Genoa.
That took actually place in the night of 27./28.09.1943 off Viareggio, as stated above (without a date, my mistake).


Zitat01.10.1943: Pommern and Minsch in Gulf of Genoa.
That operation took place off the island of Gorgona. It was interrupted, but continued one day later.


Juminda placed a minefield between Piombino and Porto Ferraio on 05./06.10.1943 and another one somewhere close to Elba on 09.10.1943


Zitat13.10.1943: Kehrwieder and Juminda off Ostia.
Yes!
Gruß, Thorsten

"There is every possibility that things are going to change completely."
(Captain Tennant, HMS Repulse, 09.12.1941)

Forum MarineArchiv / Historisches MarineArchiv

t-geronimo

Zitat von: Platon Alexiades am 20 Februar 2023, 01:38:10
...There must be somewhere a list giving exact positions. I have seen something like that for the Aegean...

I know what you mean but so far I have not come across with such a list (my collection of war time files Marinekommando Italien still consists of more gaps than facts and files ...  :roll:).

A small hint are the coordinates for Pommern as attached.
Gruß, Thorsten

"There is every possibility that things are going to change completely."
(Captain Tennant, HMS Repulse, 09.12.1941)

Forum MarineArchiv / Historisches MarineArchiv

Platon Alexiades

Hello Thorsten,

Many thanks for the info. Do you have a reference number to this file? I may have made a mistake while copying from the KTBs of Brandenburg and Pommern. I will have to check my sources again.

Best regards,

Platon

t-geronimo

The file is from KTB Marinekommando Italien, NARA-Roll 2493, PG 39998-3.

The war diaries of Brandenburg and Pommern I found in the KTB 3. Geleitflottille, Roll 3053, PGs 49465-49467 (partly bad quality).
Gruß, Thorsten

"There is every possibility that things are going to change completely."
(Captain Tennant, HMS Repulse, 09.12.1941)

Forum MarineArchiv / Historisches MarineArchiv

Platon Alexiades

Hello Thorsten,

I actually have both files in 35mm microfilm format but unfortunately not many specific positions. Many thanks again.

Best regards,

Platon

t-geronimo

If you need anything in jpg just let me know.  :-)
Gruß, Thorsten

"There is every possibility that things are going to change completely."
(Captain Tennant, HMS Repulse, 09.12.1941)

Forum MarineArchiv / Historisches MarineArchiv

Platon Alexiades

Hello Thorsten,

It is very kind of you. Reading microfilms is getting tiresome at my age! I will take up your offer if needed. Many thanks!

Best regards,

Platon

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