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Autor Thema: Confirmation that the Malta wreck is HMS Urge  (Gelesen 674 mal)

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Offline Platon Alexiades

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Confirmation that the Malta wreck is HMS Urge
« am: 05 Mai 2021, 18:42:40 »
Hello,

Last week, divers led by Professor Timmy Gambin of the University of Malta carefully examined the wreck found in 2019 and identified it positively as HMS Urge. They took videos and photos and obtained details missed during the ROV inspection of 2019. A 3-D image will be produced in time.

https://www.tvm.com.mt/en/news/exclusive-new-footage-confirms-hms-urge-is-the-submarine-outside-grand-harbour/

The name can clearly be seen on the port side of the conning tower. In 2019, the ROV had only examined the starboard side which had deteriorated with time and where the letters were hardly visible.

Some individuals had tried in the past to claim that this was HMS Pandora (obviously they could not tell the difference between a 'P' class and a 'U' class submarine!). We were certain it was HMS Urge as no other 'U' class submarine were known to have been lost in the North East Searched Channel. This brings to conclusion this episode. The wreck is a war grave.

The submarine was the victim of a mine laid by the 3rd Schnellbootflottille on 20 April 1942 (minefield MT 13).

Platon

Offline t-geronimo

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Re: Confirmation that the Malta wreck is HMS Urge
« Antwort #1 am: 05 Mai 2021, 20:26:46 »
Well done research!  :TU:)
Gruß, Thorsten

"There is every possibility that things are going to change completely."
(Captain Tennant, HMS Repulse, 09.12.1941)

Forum MarineArchiv / Historisches MarineArchiv

Offline AndreasB

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Re: Confirmation that the Malta wreck is HMS Urge
« Antwort #2 am: 06 Mai 2021, 09:44:23 »
Excellent work. I still keep getting these emails...

All the best

Andreas

Offline Platon Alexiades

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Re: Confirmation that the Malta wreck is HMS Urge
« Antwort #3 am: 06 Mai 2021, 21:51:32 »
Many thanks Thorsten and Andreas.

Platon

Offline Darius

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Re: Confirmation that the Malta wreck is HMS Urge
« Antwort #4 am: 08 Mai 2021, 17:27:15 »
Danke Platon für diese Nachricht. Nach so vielen Jahren endlich eine Bestätigung des Schicksals des Bootes.

Interessant auch der Wissensstand aus Hazlet  --/>/> Link
Zitat
Fliegerkorps II was ordered to Russia and the number of air raids began to decrease. P31 left for Alexandria on 26th April followed by Urge next day. Urge was sunk with all hands by a mine probably in the searched channel to the eastwards. She was lost with her outstanding Commanding Officer, Lieutenant Commander Tomkinson, four other officers and 39 men, there being a number of passengers on board. Amongst her crew and passengers were the holders of four DSC's, 11 DSM's and six who had been mentioned in despatches. The loss of another 'Ace' in this month was hard to bear. Lieutenant Commander Tomkinson, so recently responsible for the destruction of the cruiser Bande Nere, was about, as was also Lieutenant Commander Wanklyn, to take his submarine home for refit. Urge had carried out eighteen patrols, hitting with 19 torpedoes out of a total of 61 fired in nineteen attacks. She had sunk a cruiser, damaged another, damaged a battleship and sunk or damaged 52,635 tons of shipping as well as wrecking two railway trains.



 :MG:

Darius

Offline Platon Alexiades

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Re: Confirmation that the Malta wreck is HMS Urge
« Antwort #5 am: 08 Mai 2021, 22:12:17 »
Hi Darius,

Many thanks for your comments. Hezlet did not believe in the Ras Hilal theory and, if one checks the documents of the period, it is very clear that HMS Urge could not have been near Ras Hilal on 29 April as A.S. Evans and other authors have written. Yet, some historians have stuck to this fantasy in articles as recent as 2019 (charitably, I will not mention any names!).

Some have cited as "evidence" the so-called "Admiralty War Diaries" published by Don Kindell. Kindell has done a great job by checking a variety of sources but these are not "Admiralty Diaries" but a compilation from a variety of sources , most of them archival material but also books, some published long ago, and his work contains the occasional mistakes.

You will note that his "Admiralty Diaries" claims HMS Urge was lost at Ras Hilal on 27 April. This was the same day she had sailed from Malta and Ras Hilal was over 400 miles away and her instructions were to travel at 90 miles per day (HMS P31 had sailed 24 hours before at the same Speed of Advance and usually bombing restrictions were arranged so they had to adhere to a strict schedule). The Italian claim was only made AFTER the war and gave the date as 29 April. So one can wonder how the "Admiralty" knew of her loss two days before it occurred!

Check:

https://www.naval-history.net/xDKWW2-4204-44APR-DEC.htm

I do not want to bash Mr. Kindell, his web site is a great source of information, but one ought to be aware that mistakes happen. If one can, it is best to check the original source.

Best regards,

Platon

Offline Urs Heßling

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Re: Confirmation that the Malta wreck is HMS Urge
« Antwort #6 am: 10 Mai 2021, 11:56:10 »
moin,

The submarine was the victim of a mine laid by the 3rd Schnellbootflottille on 20 April 1942 (minefield MT 13).
Originaldokumente : KTB und Karte

Auf der Karte ist das Werfen in der linken Hälfte als Südwestkurs von 0217 bis 0234 zu erkennen

Gruß, Urs
"History will tell lies, Sir, as usual" - General "Gentleman Johnny" Burgoyne zu seiner Niederlage bei Saratoga 1777 im Amerikanischen Unabhängigkeitskrieg - nicht in Wirklichkeit, aber in George Bernard Shaw`s Bühnenstück "The Devil`s Disciple"

Offline Platon Alexiades

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Re: Confirmation that the Malta wreck is HMS Urge
« Antwort #7 am: 10 Mai 2021, 17:13:48 »
Hi Urs,

Many thanks for showing the extracts of the mining operation. Note that the same flotilla laid two minefields in roughly the same area (MT1 on 16 December 1941 and MT2 on 22 December 1941). These were swept by April 1942 and are unlikely to have caused the loss of HMS Urge. Of course, there is always the odd possibility that a mine survived the sweeping but logically the MT 13 is the one responsible and the position of the wreck more conform to its position. Note also that the evacuation of submarines from Malta was ordered as there were no longer any minesweeper operational left.

Best regards,

Platon