The defeat of Hichens.

[cam]

Hi,

Colleagues,

The English are writing

6/10/42 MGB, 75, MGB 76, MTB 29, MTB 30, MTB 70 and MTB 72 are sent to intercept a large merchant vessel reported north east of Boulogne and encounter R77 – R88 with M21, M25, M38 and M153. MGB 76 comes under fire from R77, R83, R85 and R87, is hit in the petrol tank compartment and set on fire. There is an explosion and MGB 76 eventually sinks. MTB 30 and MTB 75 are damaged. MTB 29 sinks after a collision.

http://cfv.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=309

Help please find out what operation the German ships carried out when they attacked the British.

cam

[TW]

8.10.1942
Nordsee / Kanal
Vorbereitung eines Kanaldurchbruchs mit dem dt. Hilfskreuzer Schiff 45/ Komet (Kpt.z.S. Brocksien). Bei Räumarbeiten läuft die 2. R-Flottille am 8.10. in ein neu ausgebrachtes brit. Minenfeld vor Dünkirchen. R 77, R 78, R 82 und R 86 gehen dabei verloren. Zwischen Vlissingen und Boulogne wird der Konvoi mit der als Sperrbrecher getarnten Komet am 8.10. von brit. Schnellbooten angegriffen, wobei MTB 29 und MGB 76 verloren gehen, MTB 30 und MGB 75 durch Abwehrfeuer beschädigt werden.

Aus: Chronik des Seekrieges 1939-1945
Schönen Gruß
Thomas

[cam]

Rohwer writes about the events that occurred on October 8, 1942. And the MTB-29 and MGB-76 were sunk on October 6. And they did not attack anyone.

cam

[t-geronimo]

M21, M25, M38 and M153 were not escorting any merchant vessel, only on there way from Boulogne to Hoek van Holland.
At the same time the merchant vessel Monbaldo was escorted by other ships in the vincinity.

[cam]

Thank you, Thorsten! 

And what did R-boats do in this area? How did they find the English?

[Urs Heßling]

hi,

just by the way : who is Hitchens ?

Might you be thinking of Hichens ??

greetings, Urs

[t-geronimo]

I have no war diary of 2. R-Flottilla from that time period.

[TW]

Leo Reynolds says, that MTB 29 collided with MTB 30 on late 5th October 1942 in the North Sea.
That means north of Dover-Calais. I have some doubts with the suggestion that the above mentioned MTB/MGB-force was sent on 6th October to intercept a large merchant vessel reported north east of Boulogne (which is in the channel area).

Rohwer is mentioning a newly laid minefield off Dunkirk, which was going to be removed by the 2nd R-flottilla on 8th October. Do you have any informations about the minelayers ?

Best regards
Thomas

[TW]

I ask myself if it is true, that the 2nd R-flottilla was operating to remove the above mentioned minefield on the 6th October as well as on the 8th, when R77,78, 83 and 86 were sunk by minedetonations.

What about "Komet"?
... she departed Vlissingen on October 7, disguised as a Sperrbrecher, escorted by several 125-ton Motor Minesweepers ... Off the port Dunkirk however, four of her minesweepers, the  R-77 R-78 R-82 and R-86, were lost in a freshly-laid British minefield.
Following almost a week in Dunkirk, the "Komet" made a run for the open sea on October 12 and continued on to Le Havre, departing from there the next evening, ...

[Urs Heßling]

moin, Thomas,

Do you have any informations about the minelayers ?

siehe https://www.naval-history.net/xGM-Ops-Minelaying2.htm

Darin der Satz "An acoustic variant of the Mk XVI moored mine was initially laid on 3 October 1942 off Gravelines by 50ML from Dover ("NP51"). "

Gruß, Urs

[TW]

"An acoustic variant of the Mk XVI moored mine was initially laid on 3 October 1942 off Gravelines by 50ML from Dover ("NP51"). "

Danke Urs, das bauen wir auf alle Fälle in den zur Korrektur anstehenden Passus der Chronik mit ein. Viele Grüße !

[t-geronimo]

I ask myself if it is true, that the 2nd R-flottilla was operating to remove the above mentioned minefield on the 6th October as well as on the 8th, when R77,78, 83 and 86 were sunk by minedetonations.

Zur Aufgabe der 2. R-Flottille s.u.

[TW]

Danke vielmals, Thorsten. Dann scheint die britische Darstellung aber doch richtig zu sein:

MGB, 75, MGB 76, MTB 29, MTB 30, MTB 70 and MTB 72 werden [wahrscheinlich nach Mitschnitt deutscher Funksprüche und wohl schon am 5.10.] angesetzt auf ein Nord-Geleit mit "Monbello" [war ja so laut KTB auch geplant und ein geplanter Angriff im letzten Satz sogar vermutet]
    - are sent to intercept a large merchant vessel reported north east of Boulogne -
stoßen aber [am 6.10. in aller Frühe bei Gravelines] auf die 2. R-Flottille in Begleitung der 2 MS-Flottille
    - and encounter R77 – R88 with M21, M25, M38 and M153. -
MGB 76 wird von R77, R83, R85 and R87 unter Beschuss genommen, im Benzintank getroffen und gerät in Brand. [Eine Kollision von MTB 29 und 30 unter überraschenden Gefechtsbedingungen halte ich für durchaus möglich.] MTB 29 sinkt, MGB 75 wird beschädigt.

Erst nach den Ereignissen in der Nacht zum 6.10. laufen die Boote der 2 R-Fl. nach Vlissingen und bringen die "Komet" in der Nacht vom 7./8.10. nach Dünkirchen, wo sie sich bis zum 12.10. aufhält, nachdem 4 R-Boote in dem (schon bekannten !!) Minenfeld am Morgen des 8.10. verloren gegangen sind. -- In dieser Überlegung ist allerdings noch viel Spekulation drin. Warum wurde das Minenfeld nicht vor Überführung der "Komet" geräumt?

Edit nach Antwort #14: MGB 76 wird von M 21 gerammt und unter Beschuss genommen ...
Tausend Dank, Thorsten!

[cam]

Thorsten!
Naval history in front of you in unpaid debt!   

So, 2. M.S.Fl. and 2. R.Fl. they cleared the route of the convoy from mines and unexpectedly discovered English boats.
If the description of the German attack is not, maybe there is an indication of the time and place of the battle?

Urs.
I was wrong. Of course, this is about Hichens.

cam

[t-geronimo]

Some description in german.