collapse

* Benutzer Info

 
 
Willkommen Gast. Bitte einloggen oder registrieren. Haben Sie Ihre Aktivierungs E-Mail übersehen?

* Suchfunktion


* HMA

Autor Thema: How sank V 2022?  (Gelesen 1651 mal)

0 Mitglieder und 1 Gast betrachten dieses Thema.

Offline cam

  • Oberfähnrich
  • *
  • Beiträge: 346
How sank V 2022?
« am: 06 August 2018, 21:46:25 »
Hi,

Colleagues,
I found again different information about the fate of the ship.
War Diary SKL North Sea 10.6.1944
The convoy 1253 from Helder to Borkum was completed, A minesweeper group and 13th and 20th Patrol Flotilla had contact with enemy PT boats from 0142 to 0256. The Patrol boats 1314, 2020 and 2021 were hit by torpedoes and sunk. At 0240, enemy PT boats were sighted at the position Rom
https://archive.org/details/wardiarygermann581944germ
Chronik des Seekrieges
Am 10.6. greift die 58. brit. MTB-Flottille mit MTB 687, MTB 681, MTB 683, MTB 666, MTB 723 und
MTB 684 vor Den Helder das dt. Geleit Nr.1253 an und versenkt die Sicherungsfahrzeuge V 1314, V 2021 und V 2022 bei Verlust von MTB 681. — In der gleichen Nacht greift die norw. 54. MTB-Flottille (LtCdr. Monssen) mit MTB 712, MTB 715, MTB 618, MTB 623 und MTB 688 vor Hoek van Holland die dt. 11. M-Flottille (KKpt. Seifert) an, die mit M 348, M 307, M 347, M 264 und M 131 von Borkum aus nach Westen verlegt. MTB 712 wird beschädigt.
http://www.wlb-stuttgart.de/seekrieg/44-06.htm
9-10/6/44   MTB 687, MTB 681, MTB 683, MTB 666, MTB 723 and MTB 684 of the 58th MTB Flottilla attack German Convoy.1253 off Den Helder and fire six torpedoes with three claimed hits. In a second attack, two torpedoes are fired and a hit claimed on an armed coaster. MTB 681 is set on fire and sinks. Two men are killed and seven wounded. The armed trawlers V 1314, V 2021 and V 2022 are sunk in action. Survivors are rescued by MTBs 683 and 687

10.06.44 V 1314, V 2021, V 2020, V 2022 sunk MTB  666, MTB  681, MTB  683, MTB  687 http://www.schiffswrackliste.de/BRT%201944.htm

I would like to understand which German ships participated in this battle and which of them sank.

cam

Offline t-geronimo

  • Administrator
  • *
  • Beiträge: 18444
  • Carpe Diem!
Re: How sank V 2022?
« Antwort #1 am: 07 August 2018, 01:00:45 »
According to war diary 20. Vorpostenflottille V 2020 and V 2021 were sunk (see first attachement). The battle report was written by 13. Vorpostenflottille which I don't have.

V 2022 was still in service at 15.06.1944 (see second document) and therefore could not have been sunk on 10.06.1944.


I guess that there was a simple typo somewhere. Presumably in the war diary Befehlshaber der Sicherung Nordsee which describes V 2021 and V 2022 as being sunk (see third attachement).


War diary 1. Sicherungsdivision also describes V 1314, V 2020 and V 2021 as being sunk (4th document).
Gruß, Thorsten

"There is every possibility that things are going to change completely."
(Captain Tennant, HMS Repulse, 09.12.1941)

Forum MarineArchiv / Historisches MarineArchiv

Offline Urs Heßling

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Beiträge: 15134
  • Always look on the bright side of Life
Re: How sank V 2022?
« Antwort #2 am: 07 August 2018, 10:03:21 »
hi,

I guess that there was a simple typo somewhere. Presumably in the war diary Befehlshaber der Sicherung Nordsee which describes V 2021 and V 2022 as being sunk (see third attachement).
As I read 3rd att., it's correct, as well

So wie ich es lese, wird auch im 3. Anhang der (spätere) Verlust V 2020 korrekt angegeben.

Gruß, Urs
"History will tell lies, Sir, as usual" - General "Gentleman Johnny" Burgoyne zu seiner Niederlage bei Saratoga 1777 im Amerikanischen Unabhängigkeitskrieg - nicht in Wirklichkeit, aber in George Bernard Shaw`s Bühnenstück "The Devil`s Disciple"

Offline cam

  • Oberfähnrich
  • *
  • Beiträge: 346
Re: How sank V 2022?
« Antwort #3 am: 07 August 2018, 21:53:32 »
Thorsten, thank you!  :TU:) :TU:) :TU:)  top top top

There are a few incomprehensible moments.
In the diary 20.V-Flotilla says that the alarm MTBs is declared at 01.35. In the third and fourth documents on the alarm, nothing is written and even a sudden attack is mentioned at 01.40-01.42.
Also in the third document there are six V-boats, and in the fourth there are seven.
It is not clear that the same MTBs attacked V-boats both times or they were other "dogs".

cam 

Offline t-geronimo

  • Administrator
  • *
  • Beiträge: 18444
  • Carpe Diem!
Re: How sank V 2022?
« Antwort #4 am: 07 August 2018, 22:14:05 »
So wie ich es lese, wird auch im 3. Anhang der (spätere) Verlust V 2020 korrekt angegeben.

Da waren die Augen etwas müde.  :|
Gruß, Thorsten

"There is every possibility that things are going to change completely."
(Captain Tennant, HMS Repulse, 09.12.1941)

Forum MarineArchiv / Historisches MarineArchiv

Offline cam

  • Oberfähnrich
  • *
  • Beiträge: 346
Re: How sank V 2022?
« Antwort #5 am: 08 August 2018, 19:59:28 »
Hi,

The British write about this fight
Navigating in low visibility on June 8-9, Fisher guided Gemmell’s boats into a surprise attack which sank two enemy ships; but when they started a second attack against an alerted enemy, they met with heavy fire. One MTB was set on fire and sank. The enemy had been reinforced by a destroyer which chased Gemmell’s MTB 687 eastwards towards the Dutch coast; as Fisher carefully watched the echo sounder (which measured the shallowing water under the MTB), Gemmell fled at 30 knots until Fisher told him he must either turn or run aground.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/9697130/Lord-Fisher.html
but in German documents about the pursuit of the MTB nothing is written.

cam

Offline cam

  • Oberfähnrich
  • *
  • Beiträge: 346
Re: How sank V 2022?
« Antwort #6 am: 09 August 2018, 22:46:56 »
Hi,

I found here such documents on fights near the Dutch coast on June 10, 1944.
http://cfv.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=260
Here it is very little understood. Maybe there is a better quality description of the English?  :?

cam
« Letzte Änderung: 09 August 2018, 23:04:31 von cam »