Thema: HMS Urge, Research and 80th Anniversary of Loss Commemoration

[TW]

Die Code-Unterlagen wurden sichergestellt, bevor das Boot abgeschleppt wurde. Warum nicht auch die Enigma? --- Nach weiteren Recherchen bin ich aber sicher, dass die Enigma bei den Briten "landete".

[ARANTALES]

Gruß TW,

Die DUIKBOTER lesen mit und unsere Datei wird ergänzt/korrigiert. 

Met vriendelijke groeten,
Frans & Walter

[Platon Alexiades]

Hi Thomas,

The wreck of U 205 was checked on 26-27 February 1943 by British divers led by Commander Bartlet, RN. The diving team was sent from Alexandria by the motor launch H.D.M.L. 1012. They were to examine the possibility of retrieving the torpedoes which were known to be equipped with a new pistol. This would have necessitated a large-scale effort and they were not equipped to do so. The attempt was abandoned after a few dives. Their report is in AD199/432. I will send you a copy by email. I have no information if a subsequent salvage attempt was made.

Peter Keeble wrote in "Ordeal by Water" that he entered the wreck of "U 307" at Ras Hilal. I take his account with a grain of salt as it would have been very difficult for a hard hat diver to penetrate the wreck and he is not listed in the diving team of Cdr Bartlet. I believe he must have heard the story and appropriated it to add some thrill to his book.

I did not find any evidence that the Enigma machine was retrieved but I believe that the U-boat was penetrated before being towed by Gloxinia as her signal book was recovered so perhaps the Enigma was also taken. At the time, for security reasons recovery of the Enigma machine would not have been openly discussed.

Best regards,

Platon

[Platon Alexiades]

Hello Urs,

Regarding your remark that the 3.Schnellbootsflottille laid a minefield an hour before HMS Urge sailed. You are quite correct, this was MT17, they had also laid MT16 about 24 hours before but neither of these minefields were laid in the route that HMS Urge would take. However, the minefield MT13 laid by the same flotilla on 20 April was right across the track.

Best regards,

Platon
 

[Urs Heßling]

hello, Platon,

thank you for clarifying

Do you think that observers at Malta (with hydrophones?) would have noticed if Urge had fallen victim to a mine that close to its point of departure ?

Glaubst Du, daß Beobachter auf Malta (mit Unterwasserhorchgeräten?) es wahrgenommen hätten, wenn Urge so nah am Abfahrtsort einer Mine zum Opfer gefallen wäre ?

greetings, Urs

[Platon Alexiades]

Hello Urs,

I think HMS Olympus was lost on the MT13 minefield and nobody noticed until the survivors reached the shore after a long swim. Malta was being heavily bombed at the time so another explosion would not have raised much alarm. It could have been mistaken for a bomb falling in the sea.

Best regards,

Platon

[Urs Heßling]

good morning, Platon,

thank you

greetings, Urs

[Urs Heßling]

moin,

URGE wurde wahrscheinlich schon kurz hinter Malta von Flugzeugen durch Minentreffer versenkt.

Weil der Verlust im Krieg eintrat, denken wir hauptsächlich an Feindeinwirkung.

Ein Verlust durch Tauchunfall eines vielleicht technisch angeschlagenen Bootes sollte als Möglichkeit nicht außer Acht gelassen werden.

As the loss occurred in wartime, we tend to think mostly of enemy action.

The loss of a possibly technically damaged boat due to a diving accident shouldn't be left out of consideration.

Gruß, Urs

[Platon Alexiades]

Hello Urs,

I completely agree with you that diving accidents are always possible and a few submarines must have been lost accidentally during the war operations but I suspect that the number was very small, probably about 1 or 2% max.

Best regards,

Platon

[Teddy Suhren]

https://www.welt.de/geschichte/zweiter-weltkrieg/article202791044/U-Boot-Wrack-HMS-Urge-Es-war-eine-Seemine-die-die-HMS-Urge-versenkte.html

[TW]

Es wurde eben nicht vor Libyen gefunden, sondern vor Malta.
Manchmal ist ein neuer Tweed mit korrekter Überschrift wirklich besser!
Gruß, Thomas

[Mario]

Ich habe deshalb mal das Threadthema geändert.

Immer wieder faszinierend, wie sich unser Wissen noch nach so langer Zeit ändert, weil es neue Forschungsergebnisse gibt.

[AndreasB]

Danke Mario!

Ich werde auch den Eintrag auf meinem Blog ueberarbeiten.

Alles Gute

Andreas

[Platon Alexiades]

I can confirm that HMS Urge was lost on the MT 13 minefield laid by the 3rd Schnellbootflottille. I was present during the search and it was a great experience.

Best regards,

Platon

[AndreasB]

You're also getting name-checked in the Royal Navy news release. Well done!

All the best

Andreas