The list of Forza Navale Speciale pennant numbers in 1942-43

[de domenico]

The second picture. Please remark that LUIGI VERNI is a trabaccolo, not a bragozzo...(an errata corrige to appear on next issue of the Bollettino).

[Darius]

Hallo zusammen,

ich habe erst heute dieses Thema gesehen.

Prima Arbeit. Ich hoffe, dass viele spannende und ergänzende Infos zu den MZs und ML-Booten hier zusammenkommen.
Gerade die Verwendung der ehem. ital. Infanterielandungsboote durch die Kriegsmarine (u.a. Verbände?) erwartet eine Ergänzung im HMA.



Darius

[de domenico]

Dear Darius,
I shall soon be posting some interesting information about 10 former Regia Marina MZs, captured by the Kriegsmarine at Riva Trigoso while still fitting out or on the slip, and correcting some faulty data on HMA, in connection with the Forza Navale Speciale contribution on forum AIDMEN.
Regards,

Francesco

[TD]

Hallo Francesco,

freue mich schon zu diesen Fährprähmen mehr lesen zu können.

Ist doch immer noch eine sehr unklare Baustelle !

Danke#

Theo

[de domenico]

1. The former Regia Marina motozattere captured by the Kriegsmarine on 9 Sept. 1943 were given F numbers corresponding to their former Italian numbers.
However, this was only true as regards the MZ already in commission with the RM, and not for the 10 MZs still fitting out or still on the slips at Riva Trigoso: this is the key issue which so far the HMA staff had not addressed.

2. As we know, nine RM MZs of the first batch of 65 (MZ 701 to 765) changed their names on 1.3.1943, taking on the names of units previously lost. This was done, as Marco Ghiglino and I pointed out in our contribution "Le sigle della Forza Navale Speciale" available on Forum AIDMEN, simply to avoid any overlapping of the numbers to be assigned to the 40 MZs of the second batch with the numbers already extant for other Malta FNS vessels (in our case, the former Venice Motoscafi Lagunari which had been christened MF 801 to 824). Therefore, the second batch of MZs were named backwards MZ 761 (ii) to 765 (ii) and 766 to 800.

3. Ten incomplete RM MZs, as it happens numbers 761 (ii) to 765 (ii) and 766 to 770,  were captured by the Germans on 9.9.1943 at Cantieri Navali del Tirreno, Riva Trigoso (yard nos 174 to 183). The KM completed them in 1943-44.

4. The KM did not, in their case, follow the practice of keeping their former RM numbers, but chose to name them in a new sequence starting from F 766. The reason for this may only be surmised: the Kriegsmarine wanted to avoid any  confusion between their new units and the Italian old/new number sequence, which as we know ended with MZ 765 (ii). We should also keep in mind that both the newly completed RM MZs 759 ex 764 (i) and 760 ex 765 (i) fell into German hands at Genova....

5. Therefore, putting together the data gathered from HMA and that kindly provided by my friend Domenico Clarizia on Forum AIDMEN, I suggest the following sequence, which solves many issues left open by the current HMA data:

Riva Trigoso c.n. 174 MZ 761 (ii), launch 10.7.1943, completed by the KM 16.10.1943 as F 766
  "        "      c.n. 175 MZ 762 (ii), launch 10.7.1943,        "              "        6.11.1943 as F 767/0767/2767
  "        "      c.n. 176 MZ 763 (ii), KM  launch 23.10.1943 and completed 1.12.1943 as F 768/2768/4768
  "        "      c.n. 177 MZ 764 (ii), KM launch 30.10.1943            "           31.12.1943 as F 769/0769/2769
  "        "      c.n. 178 MZ 765 (ii), KM launch 15.12.1943            "            11/17.1.1944 as F 770/0770/1770
  "        "      c.n. 179 MZ 766, KM launch 20.1.1944 and completed 5.2.1944 as F 771
  "        "      c.n. 180 MZ 767, KM launch 1.1944 (?)                   "            .2.1944 as F 772/4772
  "        "      c.n. 181 MZ 768,     "           15.1.1944          "            16.1.1945 (?) as F 773
  "        "      c.n. 182 MZ 769,     "           15.4.1944          "             8.7.1944 as F 774
  "        "      c.n. 183 MZ 770,     "           17.9.1944 (?)     "             1.12.1944 as F 775

Kind regards,
Francesco De Domenico
AIDMEN Chairman

[Darius]

Hello Francesco,

thank you for this data. We´ll check the HMA for any correction.
So there is a "mathematic" solution for the confusing renumbering.

Say "Hi" also to Marco 



Darius

[TD]

Hallo Francesco,

wieder etwas zu den immer noch unklaren 10 Marinefährprähmen !

Ich komme einfach nicht klar mit den ganzen Meldungen vorab zu diesen so früh gemeldeten 10 MFP ohne weitere Hinweise in Italien.

Kann es sein das es sich bei 

Riva Trigoso c.n. 174 MZ 761 (ii), launch 10.7.1943, completed by the KM 16.10.1943 as F 766
  "        "      c.n. 175 MZ 762 (ii), launch 10.7.1943,        "              "        6.11.1943 as F 767/0767/2767
bei den Stapelaufmeldungen um Zahlendreher handelt

174   M.Z. 761 (II)   Regia Marina   landíng craft      1943   07.10.1943           
175   M.Z. 762 (II)   Regia Marina   landíng craft      1943   07.10.1943           

10.07.1943 statt 7.10.1943?

Auf jeden Fall erst einmal vielen Dank für deine Mühe.

Es gibt wieder viel zu tun !

Grüße

Theo

[de domenico]

I think you are right about those two launching dates of MZ 761(ii) and 762 (ii), but this does not challenge the overall structure of my suggested list vs. the HMA layout.