collapse

* Benutzer Info

 
 
Willkommen Gast. Bitte einloggen oder registrieren. Haben Sie Ihre Aktivierungs E-Mail übersehen?

* Suchfunktion


* HMA

Autor Thema: HMS PARTHIAN, 03.06.1941  (Gelesen 8030 mal)

0 Mitglieder und 1 Gast betrachten dieses Thema.

Offline Dimitris Galon

  • Oberleutnant zur See
  • *
  • Beiträge: 683
    • Verluste der griechischen Marine im Zweiten Weltkrieg
Re: HMS PARTHIAN, 03.06.1941
« Antwort #15 am: 28 Mai 2013, 10:29:59 »
Hallo byron,

danke für den Beitrag.

Gruß
DG

Offline Spee

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Beiträge: 8046
  • Garstiger Piratenpascha
Re: HMS PARTHIAN, 03.06.1941
« Antwort #16 am: 28 Mai 2013, 18:35:22 »
Servus,

dann dürfte die Eintragung in "Navi mercantile perdute" zur "Strombo" wohl völlig falsch sein.
Oder wurde das Schiff einen Monat später nochmals von "Parthian" torpediert?
Servus

Thomas

"Spain, the Queen and I prefer honor without ships than ships without honor."

Casto Secundino María Méndez Núñez

Offline Dimitris Galon

  • Oberleutnant zur See
  • *
  • Beiträge: 683
    • Verluste der griechischen Marine im Zweiten Weltkrieg
Re: HMS PARTHIAN, 03.06.1941
« Antwort #17 am: 28 Mai 2013, 20:05:12 »
Oder wurde das Schiff einen Monat später nochmals von "Parthian" torpediert?

Moin Spee,

die STROMBO wurde am 10.7.41 nochmal torpediert aber von der TORBAY. Das Schiff wurde beschädigt aber nicht versenkt.

Gruß
DG

Offline Spee

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Beiträge: 8046
  • Garstiger Piratenpascha
Re: HMS PARTHIAN, 03.06.1941
« Antwort #18 am: 28 Mai 2013, 22:43:23 »
Servus Dimitris,

in Navi Mercantili Perdute steht, dass "Strombo" am 10.7. von "Parthian" torpediert wurde (danach nach Salamis geschleppt) und am 21.8. von "Torbay". Diese Daten dürften wohl falsch sein!?
Servus

Thomas

"Spain, the Queen and I prefer honor without ships than ships without honor."

Casto Secundino María Méndez Núñez

Offline Platon Alexiades

  • Fähnrich
  • *
  • Beiträge: 208
Re: HMS PARTHIAN, 03.06.1941
« Antwort #19 am: 28 Mai 2013, 23:00:35 »
Hello,

The war diaries of Comando Gruppo Navale Italiano Egeo Settentrionale shows that the convoy of STROMBO, DORA C. and ANNARELLA escorted by the torpedo-boats CASTELFIDARDO and CALATAFIMI sailed from Piraeus at 0900 (Rome time) on 2 June 1941. At 1230/3 STROMBO was torpedoed 7 miles SW of Cape Helles and proceeded to Istanbul for docking. Note that the two torpedo-boats had left the convoy a short time before STROMBO was torpedoed and proceeded to Mudros so the convoy was unescorted at the time.
After temporary repairs, STROMBO sailed from Istanbul at 1600/9 July and was met by the torpedo-boat CALATAFIMI and escorted to Piraeus but was torpedoed again (twice) the next day by HMS TORBAY in 37°40.5' N, 24°11.5' E and had to be beached off Skaramanga. She was destroyed by an explosion on 21 August. Navi Mercantili Perdute has three errors concerning STROMBO, the attack of 3 June is not mentioned and the attack of 10 July is attributed to PARTHIAN while her final destruction of 21 August is mistakenly attributed to TORBAY. As far as I know, her destruction was attributed to an unknown explosion, possibly sabotage. Perhaps one of our contributors can shed light on it.

Platon

Offline Dimitris Galon

  • Oberleutnant zur See
  • *
  • Beiträge: 683
    • Verluste der griechischen Marine im Zweiten Weltkrieg
Re: HMS PARTHIAN, 03.06.1941
« Antwort #20 am: 29 Mai 2013, 13:32:57 »
Hello Platon,

first of all I thank you for all the provided information which clears further the STROMBO issue.

Regarding the meeting with the torpedo-boat CALATAFIMI, on 9.7.41, there is a telex (“Lagemeldungen Admiral Ägäis”) informing that the “ital. Dampfer STROMBO 9// planmäßig Dardanellen aus einläuft Piräus voraussichtlich 10/7 21.00 Uhr.” In another telex, on 10.7.41, is reported that the tanker STROMBO has been torpedoed by a U-boat at 14:50 near cape Sunion (s. attachment #1 from “Lagemeldungen Admiral Ägäis”). In a telex on 21.8.41 is reported that STROMBO has been destroyed by an explosion at 21:00. The same is also reported in the regular KTB of Adm. Ägäis (s. attachment #2). Regarding the STROMBO destruction I did not find until now any specific information except the comment in KTB Admiral Südost - Marinegruppenkommando Süd on 22.8.41 (s. attachment #3) which informs that: “Ich halte es für durchaus möglich daß der Tanker “Strombo” auf eine bisher nicht aufgefundene deutsche Luftmine gelaufen ist. Im übrigen wird dieser Verlust ohne grosse Bedeutung sein, da dieser Tanker durch seine zweimalige Torpedierung in absehbarer Zeit kaum wieder verwendungsfähig geworden wäre.” 

Best regards
DG

Offline Platon Alexiades

  • Fähnrich
  • *
  • Beiträge: 208
Re: HMS PARTHIAN, 03.06.1941
« Antwort #21 am: 30 Mai 2013, 02:33:00 »
Hello Dimitris,

I have the following details from Italian sources (Supermarina War Diaries): STROMBO was anchored at Skaramanga when she was rocked by an explosion (4 seriously wounded and 7 slightly wounded) and sank in 15 meters of water. A deep sea diver was sent to examine the hull and reported that the explosion was from an external source and had caused a hole 9.5 m x 5.5m wide. Unless the diver may have mistaken the hole with one of the earlier torpedo hits, the hole was probably caused by a mine [no allied submarine carried out any attack in this area on that day]. Since the tanker was anchored, we must assume that she may have dragged her anchor to hit the mine. There is a possibility that the mine was British as Wellington bombers from 257 Wing had dropped magnetic mines in the general area during the night of 8/9 August. If the hole described was indeed caused by the explosion of 21 August, it is unlikely to have been sabotage as the limpets provided by SOE to the Greek Resistance could not have made such a big breach.

Best regards,

Platon

Offline Urs Heßling

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Beiträge: 16797
  • Always look on the bright side of Life
Re: HMS PARTHIAN, 03.06.1941
« Antwort #22 am: 31 Mai 2013, 16:12:32 »
hi, Platon,

.. STROMBO ... was torpedoed again (twice) the next day by HMS TORBAY in 37°40.5' N, 24°11.5' E
if you look at TORBAY´s 4th patrol http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=nl&msa=0&msid=204942026490373181365.00048a06ea946f99ace77&ll=36.137875,26.411133&spn=12.301229,18.676758&z=5&source=embed , it seems that TORBAY, patrolling (roughly) in a SW direction, "lingered" off Cape Malea and "suddenly", on July 9, turned back on her patrol course towards the Stenon Keas.
Is there a possibility that TORBAY may have received ULTRA information concerning STROMBO´s track ?

greetings, Urs
"History will tell lies, Sir, as usual" - General "Gentleman Johnny" Burgoyne zu seiner Niederlage bei Saratoga 1777 im Amerikanischen Unabhängigkeitskrieg - nicht in Wirklichkeit, aber in George Bernard Shaw`s Bühnenstück "The Devil`s Disciple"

Offline Platon Alexiades

  • Fähnrich
  • *
  • Beiträge: 208
Re: HMS PARTHIAN, 03.06.1941
« Antwort #23 am: 31 Mai 2013, 17:37:08 »
Hello Urs,

HMS TORBAY was informed of the departure of STROMBO but the source was not ULTRA but came from Naval Intelligence in Istanbul and I suspect that this was the work of the British Naval Attaché or someone working for him. S.O. (I) Istanbul (Senior Officer, Intelligence) sent a signal at 1704/9 to Admiral Cunningham informing him that STROMBO had sailed from Istanbul at 1845C/8 at an estimated speed of 7 knots. The information was passed on to Captain S.1 (leader of the First Submarine Flotilla) who in turned sent a signal to TORBAY timed 2011C/9 and ordered her to proceed to the Zea Channel to intercept. TORBAY received the signal at 2245 and altered course immediately.
Your reasoning as a whole was quite right.

Best regards,

Platon

Offline Urs Heßling

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Beiträge: 16797
  • Always look on the bright side of Life
Re: HMS PARTHIAN, 03.06.1941
« Antwort #24 am: 31 Mai 2013, 23:35:59 »
hi, Platon,

thank you, you are a true treasure keeper of information.

greetings, Urs
"History will tell lies, Sir, as usual" - General "Gentleman Johnny" Burgoyne zu seiner Niederlage bei Saratoga 1777 im Amerikanischen Unabhängigkeitskrieg - nicht in Wirklichkeit, aber in George Bernard Shaw`s Bühnenstück "The Devil`s Disciple"