Thema: Schnellboote

[Arjan]

Compare the camouflage pattern of the vessel on the left with this pic of an expired Ebay auction. It's the same boat, I discussed this pic with Ola some years ago.

https://www.ebay.de/itm/295563385369?hash=item44d0f35a19:g:w20AAOSwwKdkDb01&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA4Bge18PZ9l%2FJau8NluOI8rhv5C8DhNkOslbx910H%2BOgGjqe86fJsIdKMiEd8u5BBiDBnWLrA2HIj7yWhLqHQ9VGWTbajSdZBI%2FDVcqQ1wZdDUkoZjvom5QaH%2F3KjDHYgnZGCiorvlhUHI2rS6N%2B4mxgVUPl5QWafNrkNlk5Y4lLtoUD3MwGxiWqy8GEKPMMqf6TnqcYEoX51eeHybRu3wGQx1i6eWohsASiUSe5i4UIr0qv9iJSaHdBkg49fpBGGSguH4lSnkyQ50jn9cqnotWzy8Tn6uQUlfn%2Fvq1H5Bpbe%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR7SU2KjbYQ



Gruss,

Arjan

[alo41]

... und gerade bei dem Foto bin ich im Zweifel, ob es Klose zeigt (mE andere Kopfform)

Hi Urs,
You are right, it is not Klose. It is Hans-Joachim Wrampe. It fits better with the original text on the photo file "Hannes Wrangel". It is even possible to see the start of the damage to his cap on an "Asse zur See" photo.

/Alo

[alo41]

Hi Arjan,

Your photo is taken by the Kallbådan light house SW of Helsinki in Finnland.

It is (as you says) probably the same boat as is in the Ebay batch and also on Akira's color Dia. The colors are then given in Urs's post. Link: https://www.forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/index.php/topic,38890.0.html
It is then 5 SFtl with Hermann von Wissmann and S 65, S 67 and S 80 in ~July 1944. (HMA)

/Alo

[Arjan]

Vielen Dank für die Info und die schönen Bilder Ola !

Gruss,

Arjan

[alo41]

Hi,
the
I have been trying to identify the 5 Sftl boats that Arjan found on Ebay. I think the boats No 1, 2 and 3 are one of S 65, S 67 or S 80. No 1 is probably S 67 based on the round air intakes. The two other boats have rectangular air intakes.
I have not been able to find where the first photo was taken. There are two churches (?) and large cranes. Must be a city. The Ebay offering were marked Holland, could that be true? Is it HvW Begleitschiff in the back ground?

Second photo is S 67 in Helsinki. The No 3 boat is in the background and probably also No 2.

The last two photos are probably from Dagerö when S 68, S 85 and S 120 had joined.



It looks like S 67 has a 4 cm Bofors gun and S 65 and S 80 both have 2 cm Zwilling guns.

/Alo

[Urs Heßling]

moin,

It looks like S 67 has a 4 cm Bofors gun

Ich habe keine Dokumentation eines Bofors-Einbaus für S 67, nur für S 110 und S 116

Gruß, Urs

[alo41]

Hi Urs,

Yes, I saw that as well in HMA.
I have a serie of photos with HvW and three S-Boote in Sassnitz. One of the boats has a Bofors gun and one has a typical 8 Sftl "P S" marking. I think the boats are S 65, S 67 and S 80.
There are also photos of S 67 with a 8 Sftl Wappen and an "H eiko" marking in Swinemünde ~July 1944. The 5 Sftl commander Hans-Heiko Buddecke has probably changed the original "H orst" Shuur marking. It is not possible to see the gun but the typical gun deflector bow for a Bofors gun can be seen.

/Alo

[Urs Heßling]

moin,

one has a typical 8 Sftl "P S" marking. I think the boats are S 65, S 67 and S 80.

Ich weiß nur nicht, wer durch "PS" angezeigt wird
Der einzige denkbare Kandidat wäre Walter-Paul Sobottka

There are also photos of S 67 with a 8 Sftl Wappen and an "H eiko" marking in Swinemünde ~July 1944.

Ich habe mit dieser Identifizierung nur ein Problem : Die Form der unten abgerundeten Kalotte deutet auf ein Original-Kalottenboot.
Das würde bedeuten, daß S 67 beim Tausch der Plastik-Kalotte (mit der es in Dienst gestellt wurde) schon eine Original- und keine Nachrüstungs-Kalotte bekam.
Haben wir dafür noch einen weiteren Beleg ?

Gruß, Urs

[alo41]

Hi Urs,

Yes, the "P S" is a mystery. I think it is S 65, Paul Sobottka's old boat. But he was with 5 Sftl that normally did not have any marking. And why did Horst Schuur not repaint it to "H S"? Could it be that S 65 had a "P S" Kommendant when she was transferred from Ijmuiden to Swinemünde (The Kommendant ? in HMA). Sobottka was not on S 141 at the time, mybe he needed to go to Swinemünde? Still why repaint the boat for one trip? More information is needed.

The S 67 had the curved side plate already with the plastic Kalotte. See my S 67 post, lower right: https://www.forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/index.php?topic=18105.1335
S 67 and S 109 are the only retrofitted Kalotte boats with the curved plate.

/Alo

[alo41]

Hi,

There were also some officers photos in the Ebay batch Arjan found. One is of a group of officers on a Beglitschiff (?). I first thought they were connected to the 5 Sftl in the Baltic 1944 photos. I now think most of the photos are from Hans-Günther Jürgensmeyer. He got the DKiG 12 March 1944 and was killed with his S 136 on 11 June-44 (5 Sftl).
I haven't found out who the other officers are. I think the photo is from when he got the DKiG, probably in Swinemünde. His S 136 was not in action between 16 Feb-13 April 1944. He had plenty of time to go to the Baltic from Cherbourg.

Who are the other officers?

/Alo

[Urs Heßling]

moin, Ola,
schwierig 

#1 und # 4 sind evt. keine See- sondern Verwaltungs- oder Ingenieur-Offiziere ?

# 5 hat Schulterstücke und keine Offiziersmütze, also wohl ein Steuermann

# 2 und #3 mit DKiG (bei #3 sehe ich kein EK I, was Vorbedingung wäre)

#2 könnte Meyering sein, der im Frühjahr 1944 Abteilungsleiter bei der Lehrdivision war

Gruß, Urs

[alo41]

Yes, Urs

I agree.

My favorite for #2 is Max Günther. He had large parts of his training together with Jürgensmeyer. He served on Z 24 when Jürgensmeyer got his DKiG in March 1944. Z 24 was being refurbished between Feb and May 1944 so he also had time to go to the Baltic.

I think Günther has more darker skin around the eyes compared with Meyering.

/Alo

[alo41]

I have not been able to find where the first photo was taken. There are two churches (?) and large cranes. Must be a city. The Ebay offering were marked Holland, could that be true? Is it HvW Begleitschiff in the back ground?

Found it!
It is in Helsinki south harbor. Same place as the S 67 Helsinki photo.

/Alo

[Urs Heßling]

moin,

My favorite for #2 is Max Günther.

Ja, das paßt sehr gut. Bleibt #3 ... ist er älter als Günther und Jürgensmeyer ?

Gruß, Urs