Schnellboote

Begonnen von joern, 18 September 2012, 09:15:54

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Urs Heßling

#1320
moin,

Zitat von: alo41 am 22 Januar 2022, 15:49:31
Yes, I think it is from 31 Jan. 1944 when Johansen takes over the 2 SFtl from Feldt.
Ja, nur bin ich mir über das Datum nicht sicher.
Johannsen führt die Flottille in Vertretung schon am 11.1.1944

I think that the man left of Feldt may be von Stempel

Gruß, Urs
"History will tell lies, Sir, as usual" - General "Gentleman Johnny" Burgoyne zu seiner Niederlage bei Saratoga 1777 im Amerikanischen Unabhängigkeitskrieg - nicht in Wirklichkeit, aber in George Bernard Shaw`s Bühnenstück "The Devil`s Disciple"

alo41

#1321
Yes, 11 Feb. 1944 is probably correct. Klose and Howaldt had left by then. (Do Johansen's page in HMA need an update?)

I think von Stempel is the big blond guy. Unfortunately the kin is hidden behind Pinger (very characteristic on von Stempel).
There are a few photos of him in the "Asse zur See" film.

He is also the commander on the boat I said was Klose's S 70. It is von Stempel's  S 80 "ace of spades"

I think I found Holzapfel as well. I did not know that he spent some time with 2 Sftl.

/Alo
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Urs Heßling

#1322
moin,

Zitat von: alo41 am 22 Januar 2022, 18:26:00
Do Johansen's page in HMA need an update?
Ja, erledigt.

Zitat von: alo41 am 22 Januar 2022, 18:26:00
I think von Stempel is the big blond guy. Unfortunately the kin is hidden behind Pinger (very characteristic on von Stempel). There are a few photos of him in the "Asse zur See" film.
Bild 66 - Howaldt links, Feldt rechts ?
Möglicher Aufnahmezeitpunkt: 14. November 1942, siehe S 105

Zitat von: alo41 am 22 Januar 2022, 18:26:00
I think I found Holzapfel as well. I did not know that he spent some time with 2 Sftl.
Ja, siehe Holzapfel und den Anhang 1

Siehe Anhang 2 (Kommandantenliste Februar 1944) :
Die noch nicht identifizierten Männer müßten dann LtzS (KrO) Boseniuk (S 94) und ObStrm Sczesny (S 98) sein. Leider habe ich von beiden kein Bild

Gruß, Urs

"History will tell lies, Sir, as usual" - General "Gentleman Johnny" Burgoyne zu seiner Niederlage bei Saratoga 1777 im Amerikanischen Unabhängigkeitskrieg - nicht in Wirklichkeit, aber in George Bernard Shaw`s Bühnenstück "The Devil`s Disciple"

alo41

Thank you Urs,

I relay like the way the photos confirm the text in the documents. :-)

The 66 photo shows Howaldt, Johansen , von Stempel, Wrampe and Feldt. It is from the Asse zur See film and probably shot by PK in Nov. 1942.

Johansen is probably wearing the same leather jacket as in this photo with Pribe.

/Alo
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Urs Heßling

moin, Alo,

Zitat von: alo41 am 22 Januar 2022, 21:03:12
Johansen is probably wearing the same leather jacket as in this photo with Pribe
It`s Johannsen and Priebe :wink:

Ja, beide Boote, S 62 (Johannsen) und S 46 (Priebe) waren bei der PK-Fahrt am 14.11.1942 dabei

Gruß, Urs
"History will tell lies, Sir, as usual" - General "Gentleman Johnny" Burgoyne zu seiner Niederlage bei Saratoga 1777 im Amerikanischen Unabhängigkeitskrieg - nicht in Wirklichkeit, aber in George Bernard Shaw`s Bühnenstück "The Devil`s Disciple"

Axel66

Hallo Alo,

interesting foto of the 2 S-Flt. Officers. I am actually looking for information about Marine-Stabsarzt Dr. Fritz Gregor, who was most lilekely killed 22.03.1945 while he was staffed on S-181 (when also Opdenhoff and Schlenk and a number of others were killed in action).

Dr. Gregor was a grand-father of my wife's family, but unfortunately, we don't have much information about him, nor a foto.

He was Crew 04/37, studied in Berlin, Kiel, then Tübingen. I don't know when exactly he finished his exams and was sent to the fleet, and whether or not the 2nd S-Flt. was his first assigment. It could be possible that he was in the flottilla by early 44 (where your foto seems to have been taken. But maybe he came there, much later. 

Question: have you ever heard of Fritz Gregor, and is he possibly showing up on the foto (or others you may habe?)

Thank you very much indeed

Axel
Axel Held
STO auf S60 Kranich (5. SG) von 1991-93
OLtzS dR

alo41

Hej Axel,

I looked him up in the Sep. 1944 Rangliste. He is class 1937, April and became Marinestabsartz 1 Sep 1944. He is written as Gregor (Fritz, Theodor). Note that he is not Dr. at that time.

I could also find him in "Der Sanitätsdienst in der deutschen Flotte, Leichte Seestreitkräfte", Nöldeke/Hartmann

He was with the 3 Sftl (1. Gruppe) from Oct 1944 to Jan 1945. He is written as Dr. Fritz Gregor.
He was then with the 2 SFtl from Feb 1945 to the 22 March.

/Alo
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Axel66

Hello Alo,

thank you very much. I didn't know that Gregor was with the 3. SFlt, that a great new lead!

Fritz Gregor was the son of Oberleutnat Fritz Theodor Gregor, who was actually U-boat commander in WW1 (UB-33, Flandern-Flottille. The boat hit a mine in April 1918, all the crew was lost). 

If I ever find some fotos of Dr. Fritz Gregor, or the 3/2 SFlt's ., I'll share them with you ...
 
Warm regards

Axel
Axel Held
STO auf S60 Kranich (5. SG) von 1991-93
OLtzS dR

alo41

#1328
Hi Axel,

I also tried the German war grave register but could not find him. He probably went down with the wreck. Link:https://www.volksbund.de/en/a-brief-introduction



I found another 2 SFtl officers photo. The faces are small but it is still possible to make out a few. The address is now well known "Hageveld 24"

It is possible to say the date and what is ongoing. Anyone?

/Alo
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Axel66

thanks again, Alo

reg. the grave, yes, maybe Gregor went down with the wreck of S-181. However, I have an unconfirmed and indirect hint from the Marineschule Mürwik archives. A short reference in one the year-books of the 1909 crew, where there is a short bio of his father's (Fritz Gregor sen., the U-boat commander from WW1), mentioning that his son (=Dr. Fritz Gregor jun.) was buried in Ysselstein.  I also remember that earlier in the Schnellboot blog, there was an article, saying that the dead and the injured crew members of S-181 were taken over by S-209 after the attack  (Altmann; ,,Kampf und Ende der 2. S-Boot-Flottille"; in: Die Seekiste 1954). So, there is at least a chance, that Gregor was amongst those, and got buried one way or another.

However, I could not find any confirmation from the Volksbund, too. Haven't checked Ysselstein locally, yet (likewise, no relevant entry, online).  In any case, it seems there is at least one of the S-181 crew members buried in Ysselstein (a Seekadett Klaus Meyer, to be confirmed), so maybe some the others who lost their lifes on S-181 are buried there, too.

I found another record, that several of the German navy soldiers, who were killed in the Den Helder / Texel area at the end of the war, were initially buired in Huisduinen (which is near by Den Helder), before they centrally re-located those war graves to Ysselstein later on in 1949/50. If that's the case, it may explain a potential disruption of information / records.

Regards,

AXel
Axel Held
STO auf S60 Kranich (5. SG) von 1991-93
OLtzS dR

alo41

#1330
Yes, I also check the others.

Martin Schlenk (not Schlenck), Walter Bloess (not Bloehs), Fritz Oberländer and Opdenhoff are all registered without graves. Opdenhoff has 22/3 as date, all others 21/3.

Seekad. Klaus Meyer got a grave and has Alkmaar as dead/lost place.

I could not find Schmidt or Waltersbacher.

I think Opdenhoff was retrieved from the wreck and registered the day after. He might have been reburied by the relatives after the war.
Klaus Mayer probably drifted up on the beach by Alkmaar some days later.
The rest probably went down with the wreck and were later registered as lost.

There is a Walter Gregor, Oberstarzt that died on 21 March 1945 and is buried in Copenhagen. Could there be a mix up?

/Alo

Update: I now saw that Walter already had been discussed in another thread.

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Urs Heßling

moin,

Zitat von: alo41 am 25 Januar 2022, 10:34:28
I found another 2 SFtl officers photo. The faces are small but it is still possible to make out a few. The address is now well known "Hageveld 24"

It is possible to say the date and what is ongoing. Anyone?
Der Mann mit dem Ritterkreuz ist mE Albert Müller.
Er war von November 1944 bis April 1945 Führungsstabsoffizier beim "Führer der Schnellboote".
Könnte diese Gruppe der Stab des FdS sein ?

Gruß, Urs
"History will tell lies, Sir, as usual" - General "Gentleman Johnny" Burgoyne zu seiner Niederlage bei Saratoga 1777 im Amerikanischen Unabhängigkeitskrieg - nicht in Wirklichkeit, aber in George Bernard Shaw`s Bühnenstück "The Devil`s Disciple"

alo41

Yes, it must be Muller.

I think it is the 13 Dec 1943 when he gets the RK. Feldt is only wearing a tie and has probebly lent Muller his RK untill he could get his own. I can see some of the 2 SFtl officers and I think there are some from 6 SFtl as well.
/Alo
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Urs Heßling

moin,

Zitat von: alo41 am 25 Januar 2022, 22:03:25
Feldt is only wearing a tie and has probebly lent Muller his RK untill he could get his own.
Ich glaube nicht, daß Feldt der Mann im Zentrum ist.
Er hat wenig Ähnlichkeit mit Feldt und trägt das Deutsche Kreuz in Gold, das Feldt nicht hatte.
Ich halte ihn für Heinrich Erdmann, den Chef des Stabes FdS

Gruß, Urs
"History will tell lies, Sir, as usual" - General "Gentleman Johnny" Burgoyne zu seiner Niederlage bei Saratoga 1777 im Amerikanischen Unabhängigkeitskrieg - nicht in Wirklichkeit, aber in George Bernard Shaw`s Bühnenstück "The Devil`s Disciple"

alo41

Hi Urs,

The faces are very small but I will stick to Feldt and I think we see his Spanienkreuz not a DKiG.

My work file is quite messy now. I think we can see 2 SFtl officers von Stempel, Schlenck, Braune, Johannsen and also 6 Sftl officers Nolte, Schnebel, Dr. Gillner.

It looks like Müller is displaying the RK and wearing it outside his jacket. There are no leaf on the bush => Nov-March.

Who can the other DKiG be?

/Alo
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