Schnellboote

[alo41]

Hi,

My best guess for the last photo is Pillau. It is all very flat and I think that it is Neutife with some newly built houses in the back ground. Do anyone have other photos?

/Alo

[alo41]

Hi,

Member SchlPr11 have identified the place as Sassnitz as well. Pillau is then wrong.
The photo is taken in the same spot (Freihafen) as the one showing the railway building in the background.
The things in the background could be swimming targets for the Schiffsartillerieschule. Do anyone know more about them?

A photo showing the same background as the in 1941.

/Alo

[alo41]

Hi,

The next one is very difficult. It is also from PK Reymann so Sassnitz is one option. The "dB" on the wall is the only clue. It is camoflaged 3 S-Ftl boats, 1941.

/Alo

[bettika61]

Hi,

Member SchlPr11 have identified the place as Sassnitz as well. Pillau is then wrong.
The photo is taken in the same spot (Freihafen) as the one showing the railway building in the background.
The things in the background could be swimming targets for the Schiffsartillerieschule. Do anyone know more about them?

A photo showing the same background as the in 1941.

/Alo

Hallo alo,
you can find a Luftbild Sassnitz from 1943, http://www.vierte-flottille.de/sechsteflottille/viewtopic.php?f=105&t=2032&start=20

Grüsse
Beate

[alo41]

Hi,

I did find a photo (1991) that shows the quay wall. It looks identical to the 1941 photo. The quay is now reworked. I have drawn two boats on the 1943 arial photo that Beate gave a link two.

Conclution: All three photos were taken by PK Reymann in Sassnitz. They show some of the 10 boats that the 3 S-Ftl had there in 1941.

/Alo

[alo41]

Hi,

PK Reymann is next on one of the Schnellboats that sinks the Sovjet steamer (3077 BRT) Gaisma ~03:00, 22 June 1941. The steamer was loaded with wood.
The boats taking part are S 60, S 59, S 35 and S 31. Reymann is not on S 31. Two from the crew are saved by Reymann's boat and one by another boat. Note how light it is at three a clock in the morning!

It is fun to try to match the Krigsberichter storys and photos with the KTB data.

Here is a description from the Sovjet side of the same incident:
"03:45 [just before the German-Soviet war started] Soviet [ex-Latvian] steamer "Gaisma" [3077 brt] with timber on board (for Germany, route Riga-Lubeck) was attacked by German motor torpedo boats S-59 and S-60 and torpedoed (2 torpedos) off Gotland [57°00'N 18°48'E ]. 8 Latvian/Russian crewmembers from 32 were lost [2 were captured, 6 were killed in water by MG fire from torpedo boats], the rest 24 men under the command of mate Jan Balodis reached Latvian seashore on life-boat in 14 hours and buried mortally wounded captain N. Duve there. The radio message from "Gaisma" [04:15] -"Torpedoed..."Gaisma" is sinking....Goodbye..." was helpful: at 05:00 it was ordered for all Soviet ships on Baltic Sea to return back to home ports immediately. "


/Alo

[Urs Heßling]

moin,

The boats taking part are S 60, S 59, S 35 and S 31.

eine hochkarätige Besetzung ..
S 31 LtzS Heinz Haag
S 35 LtzS Horst Weber
S 59 OLtzS Albert Müller
S 60 OLtzS Siegfried Wuppermann
Alle vier Kommandanten wurden im Verlauf des Krieges mit dem Ritterkreuz, Müller und Wuppermann auch mit dem Eichenlaub ausgezeichnet.

Gruß, Urs

[alo41]

Hello,

I found some more information on Warsailors.com.  Link: http://warsailors.com/forum/read.php?1,2974,2976#msg-2976

"Now some information according to Jerzy Pertek, good Polish author, but, sometimes not quite precision:
"At night 19/20.06.1941 (yes!!!) two MTBs from 3. S-Flotille during transportation of sabotage team to Latvia met two small Latvian fishing vessels (boats?)and sunk these. Crew were taken as POW. Short time before midnight 21/22.06.1941 ships (number and names not mentioned) from 3. S-Flotille sunk two Soviet ships near Windau. Names of these ships are not mentioned...""

I have not seen any information about a 3 S-Ftl trip to Latvia with saboteurs before the hostilitys started on 22 June. Is it true?

/Alo

[alo41]

Here is a description from the Sovjet side of the same incident:
"03:45 [just before the German-Soviet war started] Soviet [ex-Latvian] steamer "Gaisma" [3077 brt] with timber on board (for Germany, route Riga-Lubeck) was attacked by German motor torpedo boats S-59 and S-60 and torpedoed (2 torpedos) off Gotland [57°00'N 18°48'E ]. 8 Latvian/Russian crewmembers from 32 were lost [2 were captured, 6 were killed in water by MG fire from torpedo boats], the rest 24 men under the command of mate Jan Balodis reached Latvian seashore on life-boat in 14 hours and buried mortally wounded captain N. Duve there. The radio message from "Gaisma" [04:15] -"Torpedoed..."Gaisma" is sinking....Goodbye..." was helpful: at 05:00 it was ordered for all Soviet ships on Baltic Sea to return back to home ports immediately. "

The German KTB text was also on Warsailors.com.
"3.Schnellbootflottille, 2.Gruppe (Bundesarchiv/Militärarchiv III M 363/4) und beiliegender Gefechtsskizze ist die GAISMA auf ca. 57° 25'N / 20° 21'E versenkt worden. Im KTB heißt es wörtlich: " 03.00 Uhr russischen Holzdampfer durch MG - Schüsse vor den Bug versucht zu stoppen. Dampfer ist mit Holz beladener 3.077 BRT großer Frachter GAISMA aus Riga. 03.12 Uhr da Dampfer immer noch mit hoher Fahrt weiterläuft und sich nichts auf ihm rührt, gebe ich Anweisung an S-59, der am günstigsten steht, ihn zu torpedieren. 03.14 Uhr da nur geringe Wirkung am Ziel, schieße ich selber (S-60) sofort einen Torpedo hinterher. Dampfer sinkt langsam über Achtersteven ab. Vorschiff verschwindet jedoch nicht ganz wegen des Holzes. Erst jetzt kommt die Besatzung hervor. Wir manövrieren uns vorsichtig in die Holzbalken hinein, um Überlebende zu fischen. 03.22 Uhr Fliegeralarm. Gebe Anweisung, Rettungsmanöver abzubrechen und nach Westen abzulaufen. Wegen vorgeschrittener Zeit wird Rettungsmanöver nicht wiederholt, daher nur 2 Leute gefischt". (S-60 Oblt.z.S .Siegfried Wuppermann, S-59 Oblt.z.S.Albert Müller. Zur 2.Gruppe gehörten ferner S-31 und S-35. Die 4 Boote kamen von einer Minenunternehmung vor Windau zurück.)"

Gasima did not sink compleatly. She was found by Swedish military on 20 July 1941.

/Alo

[alo41]

Hi,

The four Schnellboote were shown the way to the trawler Shuka (Suka, Wyka, SShuka... ?)by a Luftwaffe pilot after Gaisma had went down.

PK Reymann took a long serie of photos showing the sinking of the ship (Sprängpatrone) and the crew in life boats.
It was the Rottenboot (S 31) to the Reymann boat that entered Shuka. The Reymann boat is then probebly S 35.

/Alo

[alo41]

And the crew in one of the two life boats. Note the crying girl that Reymann also mentions!

These are the last PK reymann photos that I can set a date at.

/Alo

[bettika61]

It is fun to try to match the Krigsberichter storys and photos with the KTB data.

Here is a description from the Sovjet side of the same incident:
"03:45 [just before the German-Soviet war started] Soviet [ex-Latvian] steamer "Gaisma" [3077 brt] with timber on board (for Germany, route Riga-Lubeck) was attacked by German motor torpedo boats S-59 and S-60 and torpedoed (2 torpedos) off Gotland [57°00'N 18°48'E ]. 8 Latvian/Russian crewmembers from 32 were lost [2 were captured, 6 were killed in water by MG fire from torpedo boats],

Im KTB heißt es wörtlich: " 03.00 Uhr russischen Holzdampfer durch MG - Schüsse vor den Bug versucht zu stoppen....Wir manövrieren uns vorsichtig in die Holzbalken hinein, um Überlebende zu fischen

Hallo alo,
woher kommt der Text "6 were killed in water by MG fire from torpedo boats"
das weicht sehr ab vom KTB Eintrag, welcher Quelle kann man glauben?
Der russische Text scheint mir ein Kriegsverbrechen zu beschreiben , oder war das  üblich bei  der Kriegsmarine im Umgang mit Schiffbrüchigen 

Grüsse
Beate

[redfort]

Hallo Beate,

das weicht sehr ab vom KTB Eintrag, welcher Quelle kann man glauben?
Der russische Text scheint mir ein Kriegsverbrechen zu beschreiben , oder war das  üblich bei  der Kriegsmarine im Umgang mit Schiffbrüchigen

Wenn solche Einträge im KTB vorhanden waren wurden diese meistens auf höheren Befehl hin abgeändert oder sogar dieser Eintrag komplett gelöscht und der Kdt musste es nochmals neu schreiben und Unterschreiben. Es gib einige Beispiel dafür wie z.B. beim KTB des M-Bootes M 1. 

[alo41]

Hi,

Here is the link for the "6 were killed in water by MG fire from torpedo boats" text. I could not find any reference.  Link (post 1 aug 01:35): http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=79&t=78290&start=540

The text is quite detailed and I think most of it could be correct. I think that there were six dead from the crew. The ship was torpedod two times and Reymann discribes that there was peopel in the water that was full of wood loggs. The rescue atempt was broken off when a russian plane arrived. Reymann says three people were saved, most sources says two. Raymann say that the crew built a raft to get ashore, the text says they used the life boats.

I think that the photos shows that they did not machine gun the Shuka crew. It could be that they did shoot at the bridge to stop the radio call for help.

My conclusion is that the KTB is probebly the correct version and that the six were killed on the boat or drowned.

/Alo

[Urs Heßling]

moin,

das weicht sehr ab vom KTB Eintrag, welcher Quelle kann man glauben?

ein Beitrag in einem Thread ist meiner Meinung nach eigentlich keine "Quelle" wie zB ein KTB

Der russische Text scheint mir ein Kriegsverbrechen zu beschreiben , oder war das  üblich bei  der Kriegsmarine im Umgang mit Schiffbrüchigen 

Nein, die bekannten Ausnahmen sind Eck (U 852) und Ruckteschell (Widder/Michel , fraglich!), siehe http://www.wlb-stuttgart.de/seekrieg/kriegsrecht.htm

Gruß, Urs