Schnellboote

[Urs Heßling]

moin,

I guess the lamp says 10 revs more.

Das ist richtig. Die "hinterher fahrenden" Boote müssen immer wieder die Fahrtstufe mit geringen Änderungen regulieren, da kein Boot bei einer bestimmten befohlenen Fahrtstufe genau die gleiche Geschwindigkeit wie ein anderes Boot läuft.

Das Kommando lautet "eine mehr/weniger" oder "Zwei mehr/weniger" oder alle mehr/weniger".
Da sich diese Korrekturen in der Linie nach hinten "fortpflanzen", findet eine Art "Inflation" der Korrekturen statt, d.h. der "Tampensgast" (das letzte Boot in der Linie) hat am meisten mit Fahrtänderungen zu tun, auch wenn das Führerboot mit gleichbleibender fahrt läuft.

Ob es auch eine rote "Fahrtverringerungslampe" gab, weiß ich nicht.

Gruß, Urs

[alo41]

Thank you. It makes perfect sence.

Next question.  Who were giving the order for 10 rpm more? There are three electrical buttoms in the stearing house to the left. It looks like they were color coded to the three motors rpm counters. Could these buttoms have been used by the machine telegraph operator (in German?) to adjust the speed?

There is one lamp below the pannel on typ S 38 boats that looks like it could be this green lamp. Maybe blinking = 10 rpm less, on = 10 rpm more?

The MB 518 motor panel (late and post war boats)  looks like it has both a green and a red lamp.

/Alo

[alo41]

Hi,

Checked some more. There were always two lamps, one green and one red. They started under the pannel on typ S 18 and S 30. They moved up on the pannel on typ S 38 (S 105) and shrunk in size on typ S 100 (S 144).

What other things were mesured on the pannel? I guess rpm, a temperature, airpressure... The large rectangular black box has an indication for each cyllinder (2x10). Oilpressure or temperature?

/Alo

[Urs Heßling]

moin,

Who were giving the order for 10 rpm more?

Das Kommando gibt der das Boot fahrende Offizier/Portepeeunteroffizier, normalerweise der Kommandant, manchmal der Wachoffizier (wenn das Boot einen hat).

Der Mann am Maschinentelegraphen (bei den Booten der Jaguar-/Zobel-Klasse waren es zwei Mann) setzt(e) das Kommando nach eigenem Ermessen so um, daß die Motoren möglichst gleichmäßig belastet werden.  Beispiel: Wenn dreimal nacheinander das Kommando "eine mehr" (= 10 rpm mehr) gegeben wird, werden diese Befehle auf die drei Motoren "verteilt".

Die Funktion der 3 Knöpfe ist mir noch nicht ganz klar. Jeder Knopf spricht offensichtlich einen der drei Fahrstände an. Es gibt aber nur einen Knopf pro Fahrstand. War die Anlage technisch so gut, daß bei einer Erhöhung um 10 rpm die grüne Lampe und bei einer Reduzierung um 10 rpm sozusagen automatisch statt der grünen die rote Lampe aktiviert wurde ?

What other things were mesured on the pannel? I guess rpm, a temperature, airpressure... The large rectangular black box has an indication for each cyllinder (2x10). Oilpressure or temperature?

wenn es etwa wie bei den Zobel-Booten war: Rpm, Temperatur im Abgassammelrohr, Kraftstoffdruck, Öldruck und alle [20] Zylindertemperaturen (Analoganzeige, nicht digital)

Beim Fahrstand "S 30" fehlen die 20 Zylinderanzeigen. Ich nehme an, daß der Fahrmaat durch Drehen des Rendelknopfes im links oben angeordneten, etwas dunkleren Feld jeden einzelnen Zylinder für die Anzeige anwählen konnte/mußte.

Gruß, Urs

[alo41]

Hi,

Thank you Urs for the information.

I thought that there might have been a second set of push buttoms to the right of the machine telegraph. There are not many photos showing that side but it appears that there is no second set. I now think that the buttoms had two settings (on/off or red/green). The pannels in the motor room have all two push buttoms. I think they were used to turn the red and the green lamps off after the order were recived. The system were then ready for new orders.

I found a photo of the cylinder temperature instrument.

An other qustion. Were the motors used to turne the boat faster?

/Alo

[t-geronimo]

Hello Alo!

Sorry that I have to intervene here.
I haven't read this thread for a couple of days.
The photos you are showing are really great. But a lot of them have copyright watermarks or seem to be scans from books.
Please keep in mind that according to german law it is only allowed to show them if you own the copyright or have the permission of the copyright owner (the author or photographer). Otherwise it is not allowed to show them and kalli, the owner of the forum, is in danger of paying a lot of money for that.

What you can do is upload the photos on your own webspace and post the links to them here in the forum.
I know that this sounds a little bit ridiculous but sadly it is german law and we have to follow it.

[alo41]

@Alo,

ich habe die Photos wegen unklaren Copyrightrechten entfernt. Deutsches Recht gestattet eine Verwendung ohne ausdrückliche Genehmigung des Verlages/Autors nicht.

I think my posting was a clear case of "Zitate" which is allowed in Germany.  Link: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zitat
I understand that this is not my decision and I will follow your rules.

/Alo

Hi,

I did not get any feedback on my earlier answer. Here above I have added a "Zitat" from you (red text) to my post. Alowed? There is a general problem with all ww2 photos. They are not free from copyright untill 70 years after the photographers death.  I guess that bying a photo copy on Ebay does not include copyright from the photographer.

Thanks for the constructive suggestion.
I will use links from now on.   Test:  http://www.ipernity.com/doc/264262/14036520

/Alo

[t-geronimo]

Hi!

If you buy the photo then it is yours and you can of course show it.
Often people just copy the photos from the ebay website. These are not allowed to show.

In the case of citing I am not sure. As far as I know to write down some text from the source is allowed but not to show scans and photos.
But I am not a lawyer. 


I can't say if your test worked because it seems one has to register on ipernity to see files.


Maybe we should continue this topic via PN. With this we do not drive this fantastic thread too much off-topic.

[alo41]

Hi,

I had a looked at the crew of a Schnellboot. Hans Frank writes that the crew was 20 on an early boat.
1 Kommendant
1 Leitende Maschinist (L.M.?) with 3 Technishe Unteroffiziere and 6 Manschafter
1 Seemännische Unteroffizier (Seemänsch Nr.1?) and 5 Manschafter
2 Funker
1 Torpedomechaniker (Mixer?)

I compared this with the British PoW reports for S 38 and S 111. Total crew 21. There were also 1 extra offizier and 1 Seekadet

1 Kommendant (Oblt)
1 L.M. (StObMasch or ObMasch), 3 (ObMaschmt or Maschmt), 5 or 6 (MaschObGefr or MaschGefr)
1 Seem. Nr.1 (ObBootsmannmaat), 6 or 7 (MatrosenHptGefr, MatrosenObGefr, MatrosenGefr, Matrosen)
2 Funker (FunkObGefr, FunkGefr)

Questions:
-Should not the Mixer have been a Torpedomechaniker?
-Were all the Maschine personell below deck? I guess that the three Maschmt were sitting by the controll pannels at the disel engines. The machine telegraph was probebly manned by a MaschGefr?
-Was the navigation done by a MatrosenGefr? Were there no Steuermannsmaat on the boat?

/Alo

[Erich~]

Alo - greets

your ideas seem reasonable to me unless Urs has other thoughts..............

curious on the rearward 3.7cm and or the 4cm Fla how many were manning these guns from the S-Boot crew, 4 ?

Urs your statement about the panel is this just for the older S-Booten or the same for later war S-100's ?

E ~

[alo41]

Hi,

Fock writes that the crew went up from 24 to 30 when all the new flak guns (Bofors and twin 2 cm) were installed. A 2 cm Flak 30 could have a crew of up to 6. I think they probebly had to do with a crew of 4 on a Schnellboot. A Bofors 4 cm Flak probely needs a minimum crew of 6. That would explain the increase to the 30 man crew.

The 3,7 cm Flak did probebly need a crew of 4 or 5 for the last modell.

The crew increase from 21 to 24 between 1940 and 1944 were probebly becuse of the front  2 cm Flak gun, echo lodt, radio pejling, radar warning etc.

/Alo

[alo41]

I have tryed to figure out where the crew were stationed on the Schnellboot.

My first try is a crew of 21 on a typ S 38 boat (yes, I know that the drawing is a typ S 100)
I have a problem with to few Matrosen to man the Flak guns if they had to do the navigation, stearing, look out etc. I also have 4 or 5 MaschGefr. over. Were they all needed in the machine room or did they also do deck service like look out, manning guns etc?

Link to drawing: http://www.ipernity.com/doc/264262/14055394

Can someone confirm that they can see the drawing, please.

/Alo

[s142]

Hi

Yes ,i can see the draws.

MfG
Chris

[s142]

Hi

Have you  Details from the Drilling MG 151 and how many "crew" you need for it?

MfG
Chris

[s142]

Hi

So ein Drilling war zumindest wohl auf "S 30-37 " montiert. Es gibt ein Bild davon.

MfG
Chris