Schnellboote

[joern]

Hallo Urs,alo,
leider weiß ich nicht welches Boot auf dem Foto zu sehen ist. Ich war innerhalb weniger Tage in Bonn,Flensburg, Kiel und habe dort nach den Spuren meiner Vorfahren gesucht.Das Foto des Schnellbootes habe ich dabei nur aus dem Fotoalbum eines Crew-Kameraden meines Vaters eingescannt.Es gibt aber keinen Bezug zu meinen Verwandten, daher habe ich die Informationen auch nicht richtig abgespeichert und aufgrund der knappen Zeit auch noch Fehler gemacht (siehe Foto unten).
Nichtsdestotrotz werde ich ,wenn der Besitzer des Albums wieder erreichbar ist, zum Telefonhörer greifen und mich erkundigen.
Wenn ich mich richtig erinnere  glaube ich "Hütchenspiel" = Flottillenmaling.
Grüße Joern

[alo41]

Joern,

Looks like a very nice album!

I found a very good example of why you always should doubt photo descriptions in books and web pages when using the link Urs provided.

Link: http://www.wlb-stuttgart.de/seekrieg/km/sboot/sfl-frames.htm

The boat next to Hütchenspiel is not in Venice. It is a 1 S-Ftl typ S 18 in Cherbourg, 1940!

/Alo

[alo41]

Hi,

A new qustion.
Did the smaller units also use a "Fliegersichtzeichen" during Weserübnung?
I think I can see a painted (yellow?) rectangel on some Schnellboote in the summer of 1940. Could that be the same system that was used on the large ships with the painted gun turrets?

Here the lighter painted rectangel can be seen under the flag on a typ S 18 (in Norway becuse of the mast?).

/Alo

[kgvm]

Not sure to see anything like a painted rectangel.
But the boat to the right has the Swastika painted on the deck near the stern!

[alo41]

The Swastika is not painted. It is a flag laying on of a painted rectangel. The swastica was typicly painted on of the wheel house during the Norway operation.


I know another photo where the rectangel is more clear on a typ S 30 boat. I will post it when I get my scanner back in order. There are also other photos where the rectangel is hinted (not to many good photos of this area).

/Alo

[kgvm]

Excellent eyes!

[Urs Heßling]

hi, Alo,

The Swastika is not painted. It is a flag

my guess is that this might be the jack (deutsch: Gösch) of a larger ship.

greetings, Urs

[Urs Heßling]

hi, Alo,

I now think it is showing a Schnellboot shooting at an (American salior?) lady from behind!!! It is here hair and not a Hut figure that I have seen.

my alternative proposal is that on the right is a figure dressed as a sailor who is pulling the "submarine" (it looks like it has a conning tower) by a string like a boy who pulls his wheeled toy.

That´s only a hypothesis, I haven´t been able to confirm it.

I thought that the old tubes were only used on the ex Jugoslavian boats that were taken over by first the Italians and later by the Germans as S 601-604. Do anyone know anything else?

No, that´s my knowledge, too. But they might have used those tubes as spare parts, if needed, after decommissioning S 601-604 ...

greetings, Urs

[alo41]

Hi,

Danke, kgvm.

Urs,
I have been looking at Bonomi's excelent posts (Link: http://www.forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/index.php/topic,4305.0.html ) about the Hipper paint work. If I understand it correctly so was first yellow used as air recognition color during Weserübung. It was then changed to red after some time.
Could it be that the Schnellboot did not have time to repaint the yellow rectangel and instead covered it with the red flag? The flag is then probebly comming from the Begleitschiff that they are anchored to.
I now also wonder if blue rectangels were used by the Schnellboote during the channel dash in 1942.

I now also thinks that the Wappen on the boat in Italy is showing an American sailor and that he has a black neck tie. We have to see if we can find a better picture.

/Alo

[alo41]

Hi,

I found this on the s-boot.net site (link: http://s-boot.net/sboats-km-channel42.html ) regarding the Channel dash.

"Die Flottille wurde mit den Booten S 39 und S 108 von der 2. SFltl und das Boot S 69 von der 6. SFltl auf 10 Boote aufgefüllt. Um einer Verwechslung mit feindlichen Booten durch die Luftwaffe vorzubeugen, wurden die Oberdecks der Boote leuchtend gelb gestrichen."

I think this proves that the deck were painted on som Schnellboote sometimes. I would have preferd that they had used blue paint to match the larger ships. A misstake?

/Alo

[Urs Heßling]

hi, Alo,

I would have preferd that they had used blue paint to match the larger ships.

I think that the blue color might have differed too little from the deck color of RN MTBs, especially in possible conditions of fog and rain.

greetings, Urs

[alo41]

Yes, that could be the reason. I saw that the yellow paint was also described in Hümmelchen in more detail. It is probebly correct.

I now also can see the painted turrets in an old book I have had for 30 years without ever notecing the color. Thank you Bonomi for opening my eyes.

The fireing guns are suposed to be on Prinz Eugen on 12 Jan 1942. I can see a small light blue corner of the turret.

/Alo

[Urs Heßling]

hi, Alo,

The fireing guns are suposed to be on Prinz Eugen on 12 Jan 1942. I can see a small light blue corner of the turret.

I voice my doubts: the two first pictures "color-3" and "color-2", seem to me clearly to show a Scharnhorst-class battleship, "color-3" with a 11-inch triple turret, "color-2" with a 6-inch twin turret.

Besides, AFAIK, PRINZ EUGEN wasn´t able to fire her guns before February, 1942, as the repairs of the damage sustained by the bomb hit in the "Artilleriezentrale" on July, 1, 1941, took so much time.

The 3rd picture seems to show the bow of a heavy cruiser, i.e., ADMIRAL HIPPER or PRINZ EUGEN, probably in Norway, on the right-hand side there´s IMO the TIRPITZ.

greetings, Urs

[alo41]

Thanks for the identifications. I know nothing about the capital ships. It is the colors that intrests me here.

The photo text for the firing guns were 12 Feb 1942. My misstake.

I have now scanned the other photos that are indicating yellow air identification markings on the Schnellboote during Weserübnung. Hümmelschen writes that the air id markings during the channel dash were applied on both the front and the aft of the boats. It looks to me that the same were done during Weserübnung.

/Alo

[Urs Heßling]

hi, Alo,
nice pictures  thank you for showing them 

the first two should be from Weserübung Group 4, with the tender TSINGTAU and cruiser KARLSRUHE (Group 3 did not have S 30 type boats)

Pic # 3 shows IMO the damage after the torpedo depot`s explosion on August 15, 1940, thus the (heavily damaged) boat must be S 31 or S 35.

Greetings, Urs