Schnellboote

[alo41]

Hi

Kehder's first name is/was Erich acording to the 1944 Rangliste.
Dirk could be a nick name or the second name on one of known commanders or someone compleatly new. There was one ObGefr Dirk Linnemann in the 8 S-Ftl that died on S 199, but he was not a boat commander. Maybe he had a boat in 1944?

Last row in this link: http://www.foerderverein-museums-schnellboot.de/ktb%208Sfltl.pdf

/Alo

[Urs Heßling]

moin,

Maybe he had a boat in 1944?

Ich denke, das kann man definitiv mit "Nein" beantworten; er war Obergefreiter der Maschinenlaufbahn.

Wenn es Kommandanten gab, die nicht Offiziere waren, kamen sie aus der Steuermanns- (heute: Navigations-) Laufbahn und waren mindestens Oberfeldwebel (Obersteuermann).
Nach dem jetzigen Stand meiner Nachforschungen waren unter insgesamt 227 Schnellbootskommandanten 8 Stabsobersteuermänner und 26 Obersteuermänner (von denen etwa die Hälfte noch zum Dienstgrad "Oberleutnant /Leutnant zur See (Kriegsoffizier)" befördert wurde. Sie wurden meistens auf den kleineren Schnellbooten der Typen "S 151", "S 501", "S 601" und "S 621" im Mittelmeer eingesetzt. http://www.foerderverein-museums-schnellboot.de/sboote-kriegsmarine-typen.htm

Die beiden bekannten Ausnahmen (aus der Deckslaufbahn) waren Oberbootsmann Blömker auf S 61 im September 1943 (bei Klaus-Degenhard Schmidts berühmter Fahrt mit S 54 von Tarent nach Venedig http://www.foerderverein-museums-schnellboot.de/sboote-km-adria.htm) und Oberbootsmann Theenhausen (DKiG am 21.11.42 als Seem. Nr. 1 auf S 54), der kurzfristig im Januar 1943 Kommandant auf S 58 im Mittelmeer und später im Kanal Kommandant auf S 147 war.

Gruß, Urs

[alo41]

Urs,

Yes, I am sure you are right, no boat for Linnemann.

I wonder a little about the name "Dirk". It is not a very common name for a soliders in 1944. Is it german or more dutch? Could it be short for something, like Achim / Joachim?

/Alo

[Urs Heßling]

moin,

... "Dirk". It is not a very common name for a soliders in 1944. Is it german or more dutch? Could it be short for something, like Achim / Joachim?

Nein, es ist eine norddeutsche Kurzform von "Dietrich". Beim Durchsehen der Liste und Vergleich mit den von Dir genannten Bootsnummern käme für mich zuerst Dietrich Bludau, 9/42-1/44 Kommandant auf S 117 in der 4. Flottille, in Frage.

Gruß, Urs

[alo41]

The boat must be from 8 S-Ftl. I think we have an unsolved mystery.

Back to S 127 Jasper. I have always thought that this photo from Dallies S-Boote book is S 127 at the Schlichting werft in Travemünde with a "P 27" painted on the Kalotte.

I found a larger copy on a Netherland site that together with a photo from Behrens book Die 1 S-Ftl proves it.
BeeldebankWO2 Link: http://www.beeldbankwo2.nl/result.jsp

Here is a page devoted to the Schlichting werft with several Schnellboote photos (S 101-S 126) : http://www.schlichting-werft.de/page1.php?view=thumbnailList&category=2

/Alo

[Urs Heßling]

moin,

The boat must be from 8 S-Ftl. I think we have an unsolved mystery.

eine entfernte (remote) Möglichkeit: S 81, OLtzS dR Schlubach, Vorname unbekannt, Kommandant bis 12/43

Gruß, Urs

[alo41]

It is an possebilety... There is a FuMB Naxos on the boat and it was introduced on S 127 in Jan 1944. The rest of the boats got it March 1944. "Dirk" must then be from March 1944 or later.

/Alo

[Urs Heßling]

hi, Alo,

the "time window" is quite narrow, then. By June,15, 1944, AFAIK, nearly all S 38b boats (xmt S 83 ?) had been transferred to the "Schulflottillen".

my gut feeling tells me that the "simple" interpretation "Dirk" may be wrong.
It looks like Dirk and may have a meaning different from a first name. (S-boat drivers like their jokes.) However, right now, I don´t have an explanation.

Btw, normally the boats carried only the first letter of the first name.

greetings, Urs

[alo41]

Yes, it must be a nick name or something.

A 8 S-Ftl typ S 38b boat with a Naxos radar detector in Ostende limits the boats to:

S 64 LtzS Erich Kehder
S 67 ObltzS Horst Schuur (HS)
S 83 Kplt Walter Knapp (WK)
S 85 ObltzS Ulrich Toermer
S 87 ObltzS Günter Rathenow
S 117 LtzS Wulff Fanger (WF)

They were all in Ostende 17-31 May 1944 and S 83, S 117 were there again 8-23 June.
Photos are know of the Walter, Horst and Wulff markings making the "Dirk" boat probebly one of S 64, S 85 or S 87.

/Alo

[Urs Heßling]

hi, Alo,

I like this discussion with slow and steady progress very much.

My guess is still on Erich Kehder because of the last letter "K". Perhaps he had another first name not listed ?

greetings, Urs

[alo41]

Hi Urs,

Yes, it could be similar to Karl-Eberhardt Karcher's marking "KeK" on S 188 in 4 S-Ftl.

Is it possible to see the rest of KB Grathoff's film roll (101II-M2KBK-860-XX) in the Bundesarchiv? There are only two photos availbel on line.

The other photo shows signs for S 127, S 133 and two more that I cant read. There were room for 8 boats and the photo shows Nr. 5-8. This makes it probebly May 1944 with all the 8 boats in place. Dirk is in place 2 or 4.

/Alo

[alo41]

Hi,

There is a photo serie where the photographer is on a typ S 38b and is taking photos of Achim Quistorps typ S 100 boat. If we assume that the boat with the photographer is also a 8 S-Ftl, then Achim's boat is S 133 (often said to be S 199 in books).

The photo from the typ S 38b boat with the photographer shows a magazine on the MG 15 with a "D" marking, second letter could be B, D, E, G, L, S, U, Z .      "D" for Dirk?  Commander name?

/Alo

[bettika61]

There is also a Gelting part at the end of the "Stuka der Meer" film. The quality is bad but it shows a lot of Schnellboote, the Begleitschiffe and the sinking of Carl Peters on 14 May 1945.

Link (3min, 35 sek): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXBeAf_Ilq4&feature=relmfu

Hi

I think the photos in my last post (Buea Denkmal) must be stills from the same film that was used in the Stuka der Meer documentary. It must have been made on 14 May 1945 when Carl Peters hit a mine.
Do anyone know this film from Gelting?

/Alo

Hi Alo,
a part of your shown pictures und also a short film from the end of the "Carl Petrs" exist in the "Kirchspielarchiv Steinberg" http://www.steinberg-ostsee.de/
There was 1995 an exhibition about "Regenbogen in der Geltinger Bucht-Erinnerungen an das Kriegsende 1945"
and also a book with the same title . Some of your pictures are inside.
your picture "Gelting Kriegsschiffe" called in the book "Schnellbooote mit Ihren Begleitschiffen" shows Carl Peters (left) ,Tanga and Buéa (right)

I visited the archiv last year , it's just near by my home.

Greatings from flensburg fjord
Beate

[SeppU552]

Hallo,

gibt es neben "Asse zu See" und "Stukas der Meere" noch weitere Filme über deutsche WkII Schnellboote?

Wie intensiv und gründlich behandelt DVD Schnellboote, Zerstörer, Torpedoboote das Thema der Schnellboote? http://www.amazon.de/Schnellboote-Zerst%C3%B6rer-Torpedoboote-2-Weltkrieg/dp/B000WL9DQE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1351715168&sr=8-1


Hat es jemand gesehen?

[alo41]

Hi Alo,
a part of your shown pictures und also a short film from the end of the "Carl Petrs" exist in the "Kirchspielarchiv Steinberg" http://www.steinberg-ostsee.de/
There was 1995 an exhibition about "Regenbogen in der Geltinger Bucht-Erinnerungen an das Kriegsende 1945"
and also a book with the same title . Some of your pictures are inside.
your picture "Gelting Kriegsschiffe" called in the book "Schnellbooote mit Ihren Begleitschiffen" shows Carl Peters (left) ,Tanga and Buéa (right)

I visited the archiv last year , it's just near by my home.

Greatings from flensburg fjord
Beate

Hi Beate,

Thank you for this information. I have the book on order. It think it is the wreck of Carl Peters on the cover?

/Alo