Schnellboote

[alo41]

Hi,

I have goten more and more confused over the spanish boat names. Every book and every source is diffrent.

I now think that the latest information is in the polish Schnellbooty w akcji cz.II booklet.

S 1 Badajoz  LT 12
S 2 Falange     -     Burnt out 1937
S 3 Oviedo    LT 13
S 4 Requete  LT 11
S 5      -          -      Destroyed during unloading 1937
S 6 Toledo    LT 14

It is also possible that it was S 3 that was destroyed and S 5 was the Oviedo.

Can anyone confirm this? Are there more photos of the spanish boats?

/Alo

[Urs Heßling]

hi, Alo,

by googling with "lancha rapida", I found this website http://www.histarmar.com.ar/InfGral/Schnellboote-Ppal.htm

some recognizable mistakes, but interesting pictures ...

... and here the answer http://www.histarmar.com.ar/InfGral/Schnellboote-VentasExt.htm

greetings, Urs

[alo41]

Hi Urs and thank you for the information.

I have also found that page. The table there is the same as in Hümmelchen. It is contradicting itself as it states that S 1 became LT 15. It then also says that LT 15 - LT 20 was for the MAS boats. I think that the new LT xx names were intoduced in 1939. By then were S 2 and one of S 3/S 5 already lost.

The main diffrences between the sources:

Was S 6 sent to Spain? Gröner claims that S 6 was sent to Spain. Hümmelchen claims that S 6 was handed over to the allies in 1945.
Was it S 3 or S 5 that was broken during unloading?
Is Oviedo S 3 or S 5?
Is Toledo S 5 or S 6?
The LT xx names?

It is only S 4 / Requete / LT 11 that is the same in all sources. Based on this I think we need photos to prove whats right. I think the Histamar photo shows typ S 38 boats with spanish flags and is then not from 1936.

I think the Schnellbooty has more details and is probebly more modern (2011).

/Alo

[Urs Heßling]

hi, Alo,

I think that the new LT xx names were introduced in 1939. By then were S 2 and one of S 3/S 5 already lost.

Yes, that complies with Gröner.

Was S 6 sent to Spain? Gröner claims that S 6 was sent to Spain. Hümmelchen claims that S 6 was handed over to the allies in 1945.

I consider Gröner to be the more reliable. I`ve detected some mistakes with Hümmelchen, lately, therefore: S 6 > Toledo > LT 14

Was it S 3 or S 5 that was broken during unloading? Is Oviedo S 3 or S 5?

I think that that may remain an unsolvable puzzle.

I think the Histamar photo shows typ S 38 boats

I agree, those are the boats sold in August, 1943.

greetings, Urs

[Spee]

Servus,

italian MAS numbers:

LT 17 Napoles ex MAS 100
LT 18 Sicilia ex MAS 223
LT 19 Candido Perez ex MAS 435

Javier Quiroga ex MAS 436 maybe possible LT 16, but the boat has a very short time in spanish service (only 2 months!).
In fact, no LT 15 number for an italian boat.

[alo41]

Hi,

Thank you Urs and Spee. I guess this is as far as we will get for now with the spanish boats.
I have lernt some new things regarding the early boats. Here are some S 1 (Lürssen?) photos I have had for some time.

S 1, ObltzS Klaus Ewerth
Nr 1, The life bouy says UZ(S) 16. Maybe it is the Indienststellung 7 Aug 1930. Ewerth?
Nr 2, S1 (UZ(S) 16). Indienststellung or rebuilding?
Nr 3, New boat, typ S 2. Note the absence of the torpedo tubes
Nr 4, New type S 2. Note S 1 being rebuilt in the back ground. The typ S 2 boats Indienststellung were in April to July 1932. When were the white caps worne?
Nr 5, S 1 is compleated with 50 cm torpedo tubes. A new typ S 2. More white caps.

/Alo

[alo41]

The rest

[SeppU552]

Habe ´ne Frage betreffs der Kleidung. Trugen die deutschen Schnellbootkommandanten regelmäßig auch weiße Mützen /wie bei der U-Bootwaffe/ und auch die grauen Kriegsmarine Ledermantel?

Habe nämlich die weißen Kommandantenmützen nur selten auf den Fotos gesehen. Weiss auch, dass die Schnellbootfahrer am meisten die blauen Jacken getragen haben, aber konnte ich auf den Fotos auch Kriegsmarine Ledermantel bemerken, aber weiss nicht, ob die S-Boot-Kommandanten die grauen /wie bei der U-Bootwaffe/ oder schwarzen Ledermantel regelmäßig trugen.

[Urs Heßling]

hallo, Sepp,

Du hast Deine Frage im Wesentlichen schon selbst - und zutreffend - beantwortet.

Die meisten Kommandantenbilder, die ich kenne, zeigen keinen weißen Mützenbezug.

Sowohl Jackett als auch Ledermantel wurden getragen, es war eben eine Wetterfrage.

Gruß, Urs

[SeppU552]

Hallo Urs, danke.

Welche Farbe hatten jedoch standardmäßig die Ledermantel? Grau oder schwarz?


Und noch eine Frage: Trugen die Schnellbootkommandanten an ihren Mützen auch die Embleme ihrer Boote wie die U-Boot-Kommandanten?

[Urs Heßling]

moin, Sepp,

laß mich sagen, daß auf den Schnellbooten (auch noch zu meiner Zeit als Wachoffizier 1975-77) die Anzugsdisziplin nicht groß geschrieben wurde. Man trug Uniformteile, die paßten und warm und trocken hielten.

Die Ledermäntel (lang) scheinen meistens grau gewesen zu sein. Es gab aber auch eine Jackett-kurze schwarze Lederjacke.

Das Tragen von Bootsabzeichen an der Mütze wie bei U-Booten ist mir nicht bekannt.
Allerdings war ein Wechseln bzw. "Springen" der Kommandanten von Boot zu Boot, tlw. für eine einzige Einsatzfahrt, viel häufiger als bei U-Booten, besonders im Mittelmeer.

Gruß, Urs

[alo41]

Hi,

The white cap was worne (summer only?) in the Med. and the Black sea. I have never sean a WW2 white cap photo from anywhere else.
There is a photo from 1 S-Ftl in 1936 with white caps. At what date did summer start in die Kriegsmarine?

I think both grey and black lether were used.

/Alo

[Urs Heßling]

hi,

The white cap was worne (summer only?) in the Med. and the Black sea. I have never sean a WW2 white cap photo from anywhere else.

very good, Alo  I forgot about the Med and the Black Sea.

Let me add, however, that nearly all or all pictures showing with white caps their bearers wore khaki uniform dress, either full dress, shirts with short sleeves or even shorts.

Meiner Erinnerung nach wurde die weiße Mütze zur Uniform "Khaki" getragen, mit Jackett und langer Hose, mit kurzärmeligem Hemd und langer Hose oder sogar mit kurzer Hose.

greetings / Gruß, Urs

[alo41]

hi Urs,

I did some more checking on the internet. Kriegsmarine summer was between 1 May and 30 September and I supose that the white caps were worne then in peace time. That means that the S 1 photo is not from Aug 1930. More probeble spring 1932. The type S 2 boat is then not S 2 (ready in April 1932) but one of S 3 to S 5.

I did look through my books and came up with some conclusions.
The white cap was worne with the blue dress (and with everything else) in the Black sea. I think that the blue cap was not alowed with the khaki or the white dress. The summer dates were probebly not applied in this area.

And then there is all the exceptions.

You do not need to wright answers in English.

/Alo

[Urs Heßling]

hi, Alo,

thank you

I think that the blue cap was not alowed with the khaki or the white dress. ...
And then there is all the exceptions.

eine Ausnahme haben wir schon: Töniges in Bild 3

zu Bild 1 passen (bis auf den Rang, ist also später, 1937, aufgenommen) die Angaben der Rangliste vom 1.11.1936:
Flottillenchef: von Conrady
S 14 - OLtzS Birnbacher (1940-41 Chef 1. S-Fltl)
S 8   - LtzS Bätge (1941 Chef 4. S-Fltl)
S 11 - LtzS Kemnade (später S 15) (1940 Chef 3. S-Fltl)
S 9   - LtzS Strelow
S 13 - LtzS Trummer (1942 Chef 7. S-Fltl)
S 12 - LtzS Kleinschmidt

Strelow und Kleinschmidt wurden U-Boot-Fahrer (U 435 und U 111)

Gruß, Urs