U-Kreuzer "Surcouf"

[Spee]

Servus,

Richard (Verkäufername: travtaff) verkauft bei ebay wieder schöne Bilder. Darunter ein Bild der "Surcouf".

Die Geschichte der "Surcouf" war mir in diesen Details nicht bekannt:

The Surcouf (N N 3) was a French submarine ordered to be built in December 1927, launched 18 October 1929, and commissioned May 1934. At the beginning of World War II, Surcouf was the largest submarine in the world. Her short wartime career was marked with controversy and conspiracy theories.

Surcouf was designed as an "underwater cruiser", intended to seek and engage in surface combat. For reconnaissance, she carried an observation float plane in a hangar built abaft of the conning tower; for combat, she was armed with 12 torpedo tubes and a twin 203mm/50 Modèle 1924 guns in a watertight turret forward of the conning tower. The guns were fed from a magazine holding 60 rounds and controlled by a director with a 5-metre rangefinder, mounted high enough to view a seven-mile (11 km) horizon. In theory, the observation plane could direct fire out to the guns' fifteen-mile (24 km) maximum range. Anti-aircraft cannon and machine guns were mounted on the of the hangar.

Surcouf also carried a 5-metre motorboat, and contained a cargo compartment with fittings to restrain 40 prisoners. The submarine's fuel tanks were very large; enough fuel for a 10,000-nautical-mile (20,000 km) range and supplies for 90-day patrols could be carried.

In 1940, Surcouf was based in Cherbourg, but in June, when the Germans invaded, she was being refitted in Brest. With only one engine functioning and with a jammed rudder, she limped across the English Channel and sought refuge in Plymouth. On 3 July, the British, concerned that the French Fleet would be taken over by the German Kriegsmarine when the French surrendered, executed Operation Catapult. The Royal Navy blockaded the harbours where French warships were anchored and delivered an ultimatum: re-join the fight against Germany, be put out of reach of the Germans or scuttle the ships. Most accepted willingly, with two notable exceptions: the North African fleet at Mers-el-Kebir and the ships based at Dakar. These condemned the British "treachery" and suffered hundreds of casualties when the British opened fire. Surcouf also resisted and in capturing the submarine, two British officers and one French sailor were killed. The acrimony between the British and French caused by these actions escalated when the British attempted to repatriate the captured French sailors: the British hospital ship that was carrying them back to France was sunk by the Germans, and many of the French blamed the British for the deaths.

By August 1940, the British completed Surcouf's refit and turned her over to the Free French Navy (Forces Navales Françaises Libres, FNFL) for convoy patrol. The only officer not repatriated from the original crew, Louis Blaison, became the new commander. Because of the British-French tensions with regard to the submarine, accusations were made by each side that the other was spying for Vichy France; the British also claimed that Surcouf was attacking British ships. Later, a British officer and two sailors were put on board for "liaison" purposes. One real drawback of this ship was that it required a crew of 110-130 men, which represented three crews of more conventional submarines. This led the Royal Navy to be reluctant to her recommissionning.

In December 1941, Surcouf carried the Free French Admiral Émile Muselier to Canada, putting in to Quebec City. While the Admiral was in Ottawa, conferring with the Canadian government, Surcouf's captain was approached by New York Times reporter Ira Wolfert and questioned about the rumours that the submarine would liberate Saint-Pierre and Miquelon (a French archipelago some 30 kilometres south of Newfoundland) for Free France from Vichy control. It was rumoured, but never confirmed, that Surcouf's captain kidnapped Wolfert, smuggled him to the submarine in the trunk of a car, and imprisoned him aboard. However, Wolfert did accompany the submarine to Halifax, Nova Scotia where, on 20 December, they joined the Free French corvettes Mimosa, Aconit, and Alysse, and on 24 December took control of the islands for Free France without resistance.

United States Secretary of State Cordell Hull, who had just concluded an agreement with the Vichy government for the neutrality of French possessions in the Western hemisphere, threatened to resign unless President of the United States Franklin Roosevelt demanded a restoration of the status quo. Roosevelt did so, but when Charles de Gaulle refused, he dropped the matter. Ira Wolfert's stories, very favourable to the Free French (and bearing no sign of kidnapping or other duress), helped swing American popular opinion away from Vichy.

Another rumour associated with this event is that, on 1 January 1942, Roosevelt did send an American destroyer to Saint-Pierre to restore it to Vichy control. Surcouf allegedly fired on the destroyer, killing one or two American sailors. No documentation supports this rumour, and significant circumstantial evidence contradicts it. It is documented that later that January the Free French decided to send Surcouf to the Pacific theater of war after she resupplied at Bermuda. Her movement south triggered rumours that she was going to liberate Martinique for the Free French from Vichy.

On 18 February 1942, Surcouf was lost with all hands. An official joint U.S. and Free French report stated that she left Bermuda on 12 February and was accidentally rammed and sunk by the American freighter Thompson Lykes off the north coast of Panama near the Panama canal. The report states that the accident was due to both vessels running at night with no lights because of the menace of German U-boats. A later French investigation commission stated that the Surcouf had been sunk by US planes in the morning of the 18th in a "friendly fire" accident in the same area.

[Huszar]

Hallo, Leute,

Im Zusammenhang mit unserem Seelöwe-Scenario tauchte auch dieses Boot auf. Dabei hätte ich zwei Fragen:

1, war das Schiff Ende September 1940 überhaupt einsatzbereit (gilt auch für den 600-Tonner Ondine)?

2, was haltet ihr von der Idee, dieses Schiff vor Cherbourg zu Patroullienaufgaben einzusetzen?

Danke im Vorraus!

mfg
alex

[Urs Heßling]

moin,

1, war das Schiff Ende September 1940 überhaupt einsatzbereit (gilt auch für den 600-Tonner Ondine)?
2, was haltet ihr von der Idee, dieses Schiff vor Cherbourg zu Patroullienaufgaben einzusetzen?
alex

1, sehr zweifelhaft, da mW fast die ganze Besatzung nach der gewaltsamen Besetzung in Plymouth repatriiert wurde und eine neue Besatzung wohl mehr als 2 1/2 Monate Zeit braucht, um mit diesem Monster auf die Stufe "einsatzfähig" zu kommen

2, auch sehr zweifelhaft, schwieriges Manövrieren und lange Tauchzeiten sind in Küstengewässern nicht empfehlenswert.

Anmerkung: Wenn überhaupt Einsatz , dann die "Stärken" nutzen und nach getauchtem Anlauf überraschende Küstenbeschießungen durchführen

Gruß, Urs

[rosenow]

Hallo, eine Frage zwischendurch, wie spricht man diesen Namen ,,Surcouf" aus?
Ich würde ihn jetzt so aussprechen: Surkoff
Vielen Dank im Voraus.

moin,
Anmerkung: Wenn überhaupt Einsatz , dann die "Stärken" nutzen und nach getauchtem Anlauf überraschende Küstenbeschießungen durchführen
Gruß, Urs

Hallo Urs, kleiner Ausflug nebenbei in die Welt der größten U-Boote mit der dicksten Bewaffnung.
Diese Bootsklasse der ehemaligen K-Klasse , die neu umbenante und umgebaute M-Klasse wäre mit ihrer 12 Zoll (305 mm) Kanone für eine Landbeschießung sehr gut geeignet, aber die Washingtoner Flottenkonferenzen in den 30iger Jahren legte  kleinere Größen fest, (an die sich das britische Reich hielt) und so blieb die frz. ,,Surcouf" , (die Franzosen sahen aus verschiedenen politischen Ursachen dieser Zeit, keinen Grund sich an die Konferenzentscheidungen zu halten), bis zum Einsatz der japanischen 400er Klasse , ( die sich ebenfalss nicht an die Konferenzentscheidungen hielten und die Surcouf noch übertrafen) das größte U-Boot mit dem größten Kaliber der Welt mit traurigem Ende.


Michael

[Big A]

Aussprache "Süürkuuf"

Axel

[rosenow]

Danke Axel, auch für die Beantwortung der anderen Frage. 

[Alex Shenec]

Hallo.

Die schöne Monografie über dieses U-Boot. Aber russisch 

http://hotfile.com/dl/52455157/0b55240/Surcouf.pdf.html

Schöne Grüße

Alex

[starship24]

Hallo, bald gibt es von Hobby Boss einen neuen Bausatz der Surcouf in 1/350. Allerdings mit der späteren Turmversion. Auf den Bausatz bin ich schon mächtig gespannt.

http://www.hobby-show.info/tokyo2011/0554.html


Gruß Jörg

[Shanghai]

Gibt es hier "Surcouf"- Experten?

Ich habe gestern den Bausatz dieses U-Bootes bekommen und mit den Originalplaenen aus der Servicehistorique verglichen. Stimmt natuerlich nicht ueberein. Es scheint, das irgendwann der Turm erhoeht wurde und diesen Zustand stellt auch das Modell dar. Nun meine Fragen:
-

• Wann wurde das Boot umgebaut, und was wurde noch alles geaendert?. (Sieht fuer mich so aus als ob mindestens auch der E-messer geandert wurde)
• Welche Farben hatten die franz. U-Boote? Auf den Fotos die ich kenne ist sie mal fast schwarz, mal relativ hell

Schoene Gruesse aus Shanghai