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Autor Thema: Zeitliche Gliederung der Umbauten an Adm Hipper, Blucher und Prinz Eugen  (Gelesen 51454 mal)

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Offline maxim

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Re: Zeitliche Gliederung der Umbauten an Adm Hipper, Blucher und Prinz Eugen
« Antwort #45 am: 06 September 2010, 20:24:44 »
Changing on San Marco, that ship was classified as panzer-kreuzer ( incrociatore corazzato ), just like San Giorgio, later she became a target ship like the Hessen for KM.

This is the earlier San Marco.

Above shown is the San Marco ex Giulio Germanico. Originally built as incrociatori leggeri and later converted into a cacciatorpediniere (D 563).

Offline Urs Heßling

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Re: Zeitliche Gliederung der Umbauten an Adm Hipper, Blucher und Prinz Eugen
« Antwort #46 am: 06 September 2010, 22:04:34 »
hello, maxim

full points  top

Gruß, Urs
"History will tell lies, Sir, as usual" - General "Gentleman Johnny" Burgoyne zu seiner Niederlage bei Saratoga 1777 im Amerikanischen Unabhängigkeitskrieg - nicht in Wirklichkeit, aber in George Bernard Shaw`s Bühnenstück "The Devil`s Disciple"

Offline Urs Heßling

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Re: Zeitliche Gliederung der Umbauten an Adm Hipper, Blucher und Prinz Eugen
« Antwort #47 am: 06 September 2010, 22:34:34 »
hello, Antonio

if you have more feel free, I like this game,....

just have a look into this old thread  http://forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/index.php/topic,7953.0.html, as you may see, we arrived, although less precise and somewhat more guessing, at the same solution  :wink:

the "destroyer question", however, is not quite 100 %-answered.

greetings, Urs
"History will tell lies, Sir, as usual" - General "Gentleman Johnny" Burgoyne zu seiner Niederlage bei Saratoga 1777 im Amerikanischen Unabhängigkeitskrieg - nicht in Wirklichkeit, aber in George Bernard Shaw`s Bühnenstück "The Devil`s Disciple"

Offline Antonio Bonomi

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Re: Zeitliche Gliederung der Umbauten an Adm Hipper, Blucher und Prinz Eugen
« Antwort #48 am: 07 September 2010, 09:10:05 »
Ciao Urs and all,

as I told you I like this game, ... please do some more.

First photo as said is Admiral Hipper taken from a type 36  zerstorer and now I know it was taken from the Z27 on the early stage of Operation Rosselsprung when they met into AltaFjord at the end of Operation Musik.

Second photo is from same period and shows Z27 on her beautiful camouflage of that period, june-early july 1942. On the main bridge the destroyer was having the identification marking number, reference the Koop/Schmolke book on destroyers.

Third photo is from later on, september-october 1942 after Z27 got repainted, shows Z27 in Kvenvik bay and shows  back light cruiser Koln with her Norway camouflage close to Auskarneset anchorage, anchored were usually were anchored only the destroyers.
You can see also the Z4 Richard Beitzen, the Z16 Friedrich  Eckoldt and the Z30 that were there into KaaFjord on that period  just before the Operation Hoffnung on October 5th, 1942. 

Bring some more,...I like it ,....   :MZ:

                   Bye Antonio  :MG:
« Letzte Änderung: 07 September 2010, 09:54:33 von Antonio Bonomi »
'' ... Ich habe keine besondere begabung, sondern bin leidenschaftlich neugierig ''.    A. Einstein

Offline Urs Heßling

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Re: Zeitliche Gliederung der Umbauten an Adm Hipper, Blucher und Prinz Eugen
« Antwort #49 am: 07 September 2010, 10:25:54 »
Ciao, Antonio,

Third photo is from later on, september-october 1942 after Z27 got repainted, shows Z27 in Kvenvik bay and shows  back light cruiser Koln with her Norway camouflage close to Auskarneset anchorage, anchored were usually were anchored only the destroyers.
You can see also the Z4 Richard Beitzen, the Z16 Friedrich  Eckoldt and the Z30 that were there into KaaFjord on that period  just before the Operation Hoffnung on October 5th, 1942. 

wow.

by the way: Operation Hoffnung  :? I think that I know quite a lot about the war at sea 1939-45, but that one´s new to me.

greetings, Urs
"History will tell lies, Sir, as usual" - General "Gentleman Johnny" Burgoyne zu seiner Niederlage bei Saratoga 1777 im Amerikanischen Unabhängigkeitskrieg - nicht in Wirklichkeit, aber in George Bernard Shaw`s Bühnenstück "The Devil`s Disciple"

Offline Antonio Bonomi

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Re: Zeitliche Gliederung der Umbauten an Adm Hipper, Blucher und Prinz Eugen
« Antwort #50 am: 07 September 2010, 23:25:22 »
Ciao Urs and all,

here the detail of Operation Hoffnung from the story of Admiral Hipper .

On 01 Oct 1942 the Kreuzer( Adm Hipper) was moved. Supported by the Zerstörern Z 23 (command boat of the 8. Zerstörer-Flottille) and Z 28 she was moved from Kaa-Fjord to Bogen Bay. On 28 Oct 1942 she was moved again, this time accompanied by the Zerstörern 'Richard Beitzen' & 'Friedrich Eckoldt' to Altafjord. From here, while still flying the flag of Vizeadmiral Kummetz and supported by Z 27, Z 30, Z16 'Friedrich Eckoldt' and  Z4 'Richard Beitzen' the 'Admiral Hipper' took part in Operation 'Hoffnung' with the Kampfgeschwader 30 as flying reconnaissance. The Soviet tanker 'Donbass' (7925 tons) was sunk by the Zerstörer Z 27 along with the Soviet anti-submarine boat BO-78. On 09 Nov 1942 the Kampfgruppe was returned to the Kaa-Fjord.

Taken from here :

http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=12317

But you can have same details from Koop/Schmolke book on German destroyers about Z27 history.

       Bye  Antonio  :MG:
'' ... Ich habe keine besondere begabung, sondern bin leidenschaftlich neugierig ''.    A. Einstein

Offline Urs Heßling

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Re: Zeitliche Gliederung der Umbauten an Adm Hipper, Blucher und Prinz Eugen
« Antwort #51 am: 08 September 2010, 08:07:54 »
Ciao, Antonio,

thank you, I knew the facts incl. departure on Nov 5, but not the operation name.

btw: flying reconnaissance = aerial reconnaissance

greetings, Urs
"History will tell lies, Sir, as usual" - General "Gentleman Johnny" Burgoyne zu seiner Niederlage bei Saratoga 1777 im Amerikanischen Unabhängigkeitskrieg - nicht in Wirklichkeit, aber in George Bernard Shaw`s Bühnenstück "The Devil`s Disciple"

Offline Antonio Bonomi

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Re: Zeitliche Gliederung der Umbauten an Adm Hipper, Blucher und Prinz Eugen
« Antwort #52 am: 08 September 2010, 08:34:57 »
Ciao Urs and all,

my pleasure to have helped you Urs.

By the way I have to correct a bit myself, the second photo of Z27, shows the destroyer into Bogen Bucht, as I checked the back mountain profile, so it was not into AltaFjord yet were she met Admiral Hipper few days after ( first photos of Adm Hipper ), but still in Narvik area with Admiral Scheer and Lutzow before the Operation Rosselsprung started and Lutzow run aground into Tjelsundet.

Many times the Operation names are also new to me, Whitley was very precise with them on his books, but KTB are the most reliable reference as well as original  ober kommando KM documentation.

Third photo was easy because there are other Z27 famous photos in between were you can see she got repainted, the most famous one is the photo taken in Narvik were there are sailors playing soccer and on the background you have Tirpitz and Adm Hipper anchored. The destroyers showed is the Z27 repainted on grey as said after Operation Rosselsprung.
 
                     Bye  Antonio  :MG:



'' ... Ich habe keine besondere begabung, sondern bin leidenschaftlich neugierig ''.    A. Einstein