Scharnhorst

[Svein]

Gibt es eine Kopie des Logbuchs (Position) zu Schlachtschiff Scharnhorst 15 bis 17. Dezember 1943?

[t-geronimo]

Das NARA-KTB endet am 15.12.1943 mit dem Verlegungsmarsch vom Skillefjord zum Burfjord.

Ob es im Militärarchiv Freiburg noch mehr gibt, weiß ich nicht. Ich vermute aber nicht.

[redfort]

Das NARA-KTB endet am 15.12.1943 mit dem Verlegungsmarsch vom Skillefjord zum Burfjord.

Ob es im Militärarchiv Freiburg noch mehr gibt, weiß ich nicht. Ich vermute aber nicht.

Genau,   mE wurden die KTB's  alle 14 Tage der Skl zur Prüfung und Abschrift vorgelegt ! Und da der SH am 26.12 1943 versenkt wurde ..........!

[Urs Heßling]

moin,

Ich erinnere mich, daß Bey vor dem Auslaufen von einer anderen Einheit per Boot zur Scharnhorst übersetzen mußte.

War diese Einheit ein Zerstörer ? .. Das hilft uns natürlich nicht weiter, wenn SH nach dem 17.12. bis zum 25.12. noch einmal den Ankerplatz wechselte.

Wenn Du nur die Position wissen und nicht das Logbuch an sich einsehen willst, würde ich einfach einmal auf gut Glück hin in das KTB der 4. Z-Fltl schauen.

Gruß, Urs

[SchlPr11]

Hallo,
Wilhelm Kruse, einziger Überlebender aus dem Stab von Bey sprach 1951 von Z 31, war sich aber damals schon nicht mehr sicher.
REINHARD

[Svein]

moin,

Ich erinnere mich, daß Bey vor dem Auslaufen von einer anderen Einheit per Boot zur Scharnhorst übersetzen mußte.

War diese Einheit ein Zerstörer ? .. Das hilft uns natürlich nicht weiter, wenn SH nach dem 17.12. bis zum 25.12. noch einmal den Ankerplatz wechselte.

Wenn Du nur die Position wissen und nicht das Logbuch an sich einsehen willst, würde ich einfach einmal auf gut Glück hin in das KTB der 4. Z-Fltl schauen.

Gruß, Urs

Was ist: KTB der 4. Z-Fltl schauen (Mein Deutsch ist bei weitem nicht perfekt, besser mit dem Norwegischen, Schwedisch oder Englisch)

[Urs Heßling]

hi, Svein,

Bey was transferred by boat from a destroyer of 4th flottilla to Scharnhorst just prior to the departure for "Ostfront" on December, 25, late afternoon.

Thus, there might be some information concerning Scharnhorsts position in the flottilla's war diary.  It might be a chance to look into that diary to get that piece of info.

There is, however, still the possibility that Scharnhorst changed her anchorage after December 17 and prior to December 25. If you are interested in the position of 17 December, only, there remains an uncertainty.

greetings, Urs

[Svein]

Hi Urs Heßling
Have information that she was in Burfjord from 15 to 17. December. And I know she left Langfjord 25 December. Position in the period 17 to 25 is unknown. The observation of Burfjord is only told by people who were settled in Burfjord and not confirmed by other sources. t-geronimo wrote:  "Das NARA-KTB endet am 15.12.1943 mit dem Verlegungsmarsch vom Skillefjord zum Burfjord", so the story seems to be credible.

[Hägar]

Indeed, Svein, you are right

SH plus Z29 & Z38 anchored in Burfjord in the early afternoon of 15.12.43 (the destroyers dropped anchor at about 13:00).
There they stayed until the 18.12., when they weighed anchor at about 08:30 and went, as an escort for SH, round the islands of Loppa and Silda into Langfjord arriving in the early afternoon, together with SH.
The battleship, obviously, did not leave Langfjord again until the 25.12.43 as there are no movements of the destroyers mentioned, and she would not have moved out without an escort.

Since 15.12. the FdZ, Bey, flew his flag in Z30 in Kaafjord, but was in person on board TP (because of her better telecommunication).
On 25.12. he embarked on board Z30 (14:00), and was transferred to SH in Langfjord (17:45).
(Johannesson, by the way, tells - in his 'Offizier in kritischer Zeit' (p.95) - that it took two hours for Bey to be shipped to SH by a tug. During this passage he wrote the operation's order being distributed to the destroyers by mailbag).
The task force set sail for 'Ostfront' at about 19:45-20:15, about two hours after Bey had arrived in Langfjord. Johannesson remembers that there was no commanders' conference discussing the operation.

Regards - Hägar

[Svein]

Thanks Hagar, very good information 

[t-geronimo]

And here is a map of Scharnhorst and her destroyers in Burfjord:

[Svein]

Thanks, interesting

[Svein]

Indeed, Svein, you are right

SH plus Z29 & Z38 anchored in Burfjord in the early afternoon of 15.12.43 (the destroyers dropped anchor at about 13:00).
There they stayed until the 18.12., when they weighed anchor at about 08:30 and went, as an escort for SH, round the islands of Loppa and Silda into Langfjord arriving in the early afternoon, together with SH.
The battleship, obviously, did not leave Langfjord again until the 25.12.43 as there are no movements of the destroyers mentioned, and she would not have moved out without an escort.

Since 15.12. the FdZ, Bey, flew his flag in Z30 in Kaafjord, but was in person on board TP (because of her better telecommunication).
On 25.12. he embarked on board Z30 (14:00), and was transferred to SH in Langfjord (17:45).
(Johannesson, by the way, tells - in his 'Offizier in kritischer Zeit' (p.95) - that it took two hours for Bey to be shipped to SH by a tug. During this passage he wrote the operation's order being distributed to the destroyers by mailbag).
The task force set sail for 'Ostfront' at about 19:45-20:15, about two hours after Bey had arrived in Langfjord. Johannesson remembers that there was no commanders' conference discussing the operation.

Regards - Hägar

[Svein]

Where do you find written sources to SH trip to Burfjord, December 15 to 18? Bought the book 'Offizier in kritisches Zeit' but can not find anything about this trip there.

[t-geronimo]

War diary of battleship Scharnhorst and the destroyers.