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Autor Thema: Action 15-16/7/43  (Gelesen 2437 mal)

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Offline cam

  • Fähnrich
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Action 15-16/7/43
« am: 23 November 2016, 21:55:49 »
Hi,

16 Jul. 1943 Five boats of the 7th PT Boat Flotil-
la returned from operations in the early morning and put in
tt Paradiso. From 2240 - 2307 on the preceding evening, the
formation had an artillery duel with 4 motor gun-bc£"fcs, 20
miles south of Messina during x^hich two motor gun-boats were
set on fire by shells and 1 was probably sunk. At 2330, the
flotilla made a detour to the east to avoid other motor gun-
boats and advanced in the reconnaissance section up to 5 miles
northeast of Syracuse. A combined torpedo attack on a tanker
or LST with two escort vessels on a westerly course was un-
successful due to a phosphorescent bubble track. No ships
were sighted off Syracuse and Augusta. At 0348 the flotilla
turned back from 8 miles southeast of Augusta making a wide
detour to the east. Between 0517 and 0600, the flotilla was
heavily engaged by a superior force of 8 motor gun-boats and
PT boats, PT bo^"t 0-1^6 was unable to move for some time be-
cause all ^r engines went out of action. Hits on the enemy
were ~> D served. Only one man was wounded on our side. Four
voats are out of action because of hits and engine trouble,,
At 1930, the boats put in to Salerno.

https://archive.org/stream/wardiarygermann471943germ/wardiarygermann471943germ_djvu.txt

Which German S-boats participated in the battle? What enemy ships were fighting night 15-16 / 7/43 German S-boats? English only give the following information:

7th MTB Flotilla
MTB 57, MTB 60, MTB 62, MTB 65, MTB 76, MTB 77, MTB 81, MTB 82, MTB 84 and MTB 95
15-6/7/43 MTBs 57, 62, 77 and 82 are lying stopped between Messina and Reggio with SO 7th Flotilla embarked. Six boats from the 7th E Boat Flotilla are sighted. The E Boats turn and head north followed by the MTBs. MTB 77 fires torpedoes and engages with gunfire and a melee ensues. Two or three E boats are set on fire. The leading E boat explodes probably having been hit by a torpedo. MTBs 57, 62, 77 and 82 are engaged by shore batteries. MTB 77 is hit several times makes smoke and disengages to the south with the remaining boats following. A near miss on MTB 82 severely wounds the Commanding Officer and kills a crewman.
0500 MTBs 57, 62, 77 and 82 are in a brief engagement with a second group of E boats before returning to Augusta. German records show five E Boats damaged on this night.


http://cfv.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=535



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Offline Urs Heßling

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Re: Action 15-16/7/43
« Antwort #1 am: 23 November 2016, 23:52:03 »
moin,

die Boote waren S 151, S 152, S 154, S 155 (alle 7. SFltl) und S 55 (3. SFltl) unter Führung des Chefs der 7. SFltl.
Geringe Trefferschäden auf allen Booten, S 154 aKB wegen Treffer am Bb-Torpedorohr, verlegte zusammen mit S 151 (Maschinenprobleme) zur Instandsetzung nach Toulon
1 britisches MGB wurde als versenkt, ein weiteres als schwer beschädigt gemeldet.

Quelle : KTB der 1. Schnellbootsdivision /3. Schnellbootsflottille v. 16.- 31.7.1943

Gruß, Urs
"History will tell lies, Sir, as usual" - General "Gentleman Johnny" Burgoyne zu seiner Niederlage bei Saratoga 1777 im Amerikanischen Unabhängigkeitskrieg - nicht in Wirklichkeit, aber in George Bernard Shaw`s Bühnenstück "The Devil`s Disciple"

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  • Fähnrich
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Re: Action 15-16/7/43
« Antwort #2 am: 25 November 2016, 21:48:47 »
Thank you, Urs

CO was 7. SFltl. Kptlt.Trummer? From left to Messina S-boats?

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Offline Urs Heßling

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Re: Action 15-16/7/43
« Antwort #3 am: 25 November 2016, 22:35:10 »
hi,

CO was 7. SFltl. Kptlt.Trummer? 
not CO = Commanding Officer, but SO = Senior Officer (dt.: Flottillenchef)

From left to Messina S-boats?
I don't understand that question.

gruß, Urs
"History will tell lies, Sir, as usual" - General "Gentleman Johnny" Burgoyne zu seiner Niederlage bei Saratoga 1777 im Amerikanischen Unabhängigkeitskrieg - nicht in Wirklichkeit, aber in George Bernard Shaw`s Bühnenstück "The Devil`s Disciple"

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Re: Action 15-16/7/43
« Antwort #4 am: 25 November 2016, 22:53:43 »
Hi,

From out at sea C-boats?

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Offline Urs Heßling

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Re: Action 15-16/7/43
« Antwort #5 am: 25 November 2016, 23:02:36 »
hi,

the boats came from Salerno and returned there, too.

greetings, Urs
"History will tell lies, Sir, as usual" - General "Gentleman Johnny" Burgoyne zu seiner Niederlage bei Saratoga 1777 im Amerikanischen Unabhängigkeitskrieg - nicht in Wirklichkeit, aber in George Bernard Shaw`s Bühnenstück "The Devil`s Disciple"

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Re: Action 15-16/7/43
« Antwort #6 am: 25 November 2016, 23:38:04 »
Hi,

15-16/7/43   MTBs 634, 640, 651 and 670 intercepted five E Boats causing them to retire northwards.

Perhaps these are the 4 gunboats, which fought with the s-boats 22.40 - 23.07 15/7/43.

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Re: Action 15-16/7/43
« Antwort #7 am: 26 November 2016, 19:12:56 »
Hi,

It turns out that the night of 15/16 July in the area of the Strait of Messina MTBs spent three fights: two - 7th Flotilla and one - the "dogs" of the 19th Flotilla. 7th S-Flotilla had two fights. Maybe in the Strait were the Italian E-boats?

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Re: Action 15-16/7/43
« Antwort #8 am: 01 Dezember 2016, 21:57:08 »
Hi,

14/7/43 At 1300, MTB 633, MTB 655 and MTB 656 depart Malta for a patrol in the Straits of Messina. Senior Officer, TLt ET Greene-Kelly RNVR, is embarked in MTB 655.
2344 MTB 633, MTB 655 and MTB 656 engage a group of two E Boats. MTB 633 and MTB 656 engage the leading boat and MTB 655 engages the second boat at a range of 300 yds. The E Boats are driven towards the shore with the second boat being set on fire, her guns put out of action and runs aground. The other E Boat runs north, on fire, and with only one gun still in action. Shore batteries engage the MTBs and searchlights illuminate them. MTB 633, MTB 655 and MTB 656 break off the action believing the E Boats to have been destroyed.
Returning to Malta at the end of the patrol, two vessels are sighted off Cape Alassio but they are travelling faster than the current maximum speed of the MTBs. More boats are sighted and there is a running fight but the boats are faster and the MTBs break off the action.
05.00 Shortly after dawn, more boats are sighted. Both groups pass, on reciprocal courses, 1000 yds apart with shots being exchanged. The MTBs enter the advanced base at Syracuse, Sicily.


Participated German S-boats in the battles of the night?

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Offline Urs Heßling

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Re: Action 15-16/7/43
« Antwort #9 am: 01 Dezember 2016, 22:16:10 »
moin,

Ein Einsatz von Booten der 3. SFltl ist nach Aktenlage (KTB) auszuschließen.

Betreffs eines Einsatzes von Booten der 7. SFltl fehlt die Dokumentation (KTB nicht vorhanden).

Gruß, Urs
"History will tell lies, Sir, as usual" - General "Gentleman Johnny" Burgoyne zu seiner Niederlage bei Saratoga 1777 im Amerikanischen Unabhängigkeitskrieg - nicht in Wirklichkeit, aber in George Bernard Shaw`s Bühnenstück "The Devil`s Disciple"

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Re: Action 15-16/7/43
« Antwort #10 am: 01 Dezember 2016, 22:36:55 »
Hi,

on the night of 12/13 July 24th Flotilla (Lt C.W.S. Dreyer) with MTB 81, 77 and 84 (71-ft Vospers), after sinking U 561 and damaging U 573 in the North part of the Messina Strait, sighted two more vessels (E-Boats) doing 25 kts down the Calabrian coast and missed them with one torpedo. 33rd Flot. of Dog boats (Fairmile Ds) positioned more to the South, MTB 655, 656 and 633 led by Lt Greene-Kelly, was then called into action. Both targets were hit and set on fire: they were left blazing and drifting towards the Sicilian shore by the MTBs, themselves taken under fire by shore batteries. Off Cape Alessio, they later made contact and engaged 2 fast boats moving North (MAS boats?) and then a further 6 or 7, all of which escaped Northward.
http://warsailors.com/forum/read.php?1,48614,48634#msg-48634

This information is from another forum. The same events occur during the night of 12/13 July.

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Offline t-geronimo

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Re: Action 15-16/7/43
« Antwort #11 am: 01 Dezember 2016, 23:35:00 »
Nach KTB Marinekommando Italien haben mindestens die Boote der 7. S-Flottille, vermutlich aber auch die der 3. S-Flottille, in der Nacht 12./13.07.1943 Feindberührung in der Straße von Messina.
2 eigene Boote leicht beschädigt.
Gruß, Thorsten

"There is every possibility that things are going to change completely."
(Captain Tennant, HMS Repulse, 09.12.1941)

Forum MarineArchiv / Historisches MarineArchiv

Offline Urs Heßling

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Re: Action 15-16/7/43
« Antwort #12 am: 02 Dezember 2016, 16:15:42 »
moin,

Boote der 3. SFltl in der Nacht 12./13.7.43 im Einsatz : S 30, S 36, S 55

Boote der 7. SFltl in der Nacht 12./13.7.43 mit an Sicherheit grenzender Wahrscheinlichkeit im Einsatz : S 151, S 152, S 155, S 157 (KTB 3. SFltl : "Chef 7. SFltl mit 4 Booten")

Boote der 7. SFltl 12./13.7.43 definitiv nicht im Einsatz : S 153, S 154, S 156, S 158 (alle in Toulon bzw. auf dem Marsch von dort)

Gruß, Urs
"History will tell lies, Sir, as usual" - General "Gentleman Johnny" Burgoyne zu seiner Niederlage bei Saratoga 1777 im Amerikanischen Unabhängigkeitskrieg - nicht in Wirklichkeit, aber in George Bernard Shaw`s Bühnenstück "The Devil`s Disciple"

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Re: Action 15-16/7/43
« Antwort #13 am: 02 Dezember 2016, 19:55:40 »
Hi,

Cape Alessio is located in Sicily 15 miles south of Messina. So MTB 655, 656 and 633 fought with S-boats 3th and 7th S-flotillas!

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Re: Action 15-16/7/43
« Antwort #14 am: 03 Dezember 2016, 18:48:21 »
Hi,

Found information on the British fight the night of 15/16 July.

D.S.M. London Gazette 21 December 1943. D/JX 238234 George Thomas Hammett, A.B., MTB 77. Awarded for two actions with E-Boats in the Mediterranean on 15 July 1943. The following details are taken from Flag 4 by Dudley Pope:

‘The next night, the 15th/16th, the short boats had their first real brush with E-boats since the assault on Sicily started. Four boats of the 7th Flotilla, 77 (under the temporary command of S/Lt. E. Lassen), 82 (Lt. C. A. Rees), which was fitted out as a gunboat, 57 (Lt. J. Aimers), also a gunboat, and 62 (Lt. C. Finch), were under the S.O., Lt. Blomfield, who was embarked in 77. The unit was lying stopped in the Messina Straits when, at 2240, five unidentified vessels were seen steering south and hugging the Italian coast. Blomfield ordered the four boats to crash start, sent a sighting report, and turned at high speed onto a south-easterly course with the four boats forming line abreast to starboard. 
The vessels were soon identified as six E-boats travelling at 20 knots...Blomfield gave chase. The four MTBs became strung out as they headed north-westwards after the E-boats, and within a very short while Blomfield in 77 was well ahead of the other three. At 2300 MTB 77 fired both torpedoes, set at 3 feet and 5 feet, the point of aim being 600 yards ahead of the leading E-boat. Blomfield then increased speed, and two minutes after firing the torpedoes he opened up on the rear E-boat with gunfire.
Immediately all six E-boats opened fire on 77, and two shore batteries on the Sicilian coast joined in. At this moment the leading E-boat blew up, having probably been hit by 77’s torpedoes. For the next fifteen minutes the four MTBs, going full out, chased the E-boats. 77, 82 and 62 were firing at the fourth in the line when it suddenly burst into flames. The second in the line then hauled out and stopped. By this time the four shore batteries on the Sicilian coast and two on the Italian had joined in and were shooting accurately. At this point the Straits are less than four miles wide, and 77 was repeatedly hit by shell splinters and fire from small calibre guns. Blomfield therefore decided to disengage south under cover of smoke.
The shore batteries, however, kept up their fire. From 2320, when they disengaged from the E-boats, until 0215 the next day they were accurately shelled. A near miss on 82 severely wounded Rees, her C.O., and killed a rating. Blomfield ordered her to return to Augusta, which was now operating as a base.
At 0500 he headed his unit back to Augusta, but fifteen minutes later five E-boats were sighted to the eastward... being engaged by units of the 32nd Flotilla (MTBs 634, 670, 640 and 651). Blomfield altered a course to close and increased to full speed, and within 30 minutes his boats were opening fire on the E-boats at 1,000 yards, closing to 500 yards. One large type E-boat was seen to be in trouble, and Blomfield in 77 closed for the “kill”. His Breda gun chose that moment to jam, and as the 0.5-inch turret had not had time to reload he disengaged to port.
All three boats had been damaged. Blomfield’s boat, 77, and 82 had both been hit below the waterline, and 77 was leaking badly. The only auxiliary engine available had been hit and was out of action, so the crew had to bail by hand until she got back to Augusta.’

In addition to Hammett’s D.S.M., MTB 77 was honoured with a D.S.C. for the skipper, Lieut. Lassen, and a Mention for another rating. Lassen went on to win a Bar to his D.S.C. and a Mention, both for actions in MTB 404. Blomfield was awarded a Bar to the D.S.C. he had won in Norway in 1940 and went on to win a second Bar and a Mention in MTB 420.


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