Bilder aus dem Mittelmeerraum, vermutl. zwischen 1941 und 1943

[alo41]

Hi,

I think this is Oblt Klünder as well based on the DRL sport badge etc.

He was discused here before, antwort 5.  Link:  http://www.forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/index.php/topic,27058.msg306010.html#msg306010

/Alo

[alo41]

Hi,

I have a problem with Wuppermanns italian awards.

Dörr, Die Ritterkreuzträger 1939-45, Überwasserstreitkräfte, page 374
10 May 1942,  War cross with sword
21 May 1942, Bravery medal brons
24 Jan 1943, Bravery medal silver

He also got Afrika medal.

Why does the photos (My "antwort 14" this thread) show him with two war crosses and one bravery medal (also in Kemnade page 358)? This is exactly the combination of awards that was given to Müller and Weber. Is Dörr wrong or was Wuppermann given the wrong medals?

/Alo

[Urs Heßling]

moin, Alo,

Why does the photos (My "antwort 14" this thread)

Sehr interessante Bilder   where did you get them  ?

Is Dörr wrong ... ?

Sehr wahrscheinlich ja.

Gruß, Urs

[alo41]

Hi Urs,

I want to find out at what date Wuppermann recived the medals. There is a photo of him with Admiral Riccardi and young Mario Barone (Wuppermann to the right). It must be Winter 42/43 becuse of the blue caps and the overcoat. I think it is taken in Empedocle and the Wupperman is on a boat (S 56?) with the acht/wacht flag.

From Hümmelchen on S 56:
16 Nov 1942:  Bizerta, North Africa
8 Dec: Müller in charge, I think Wuppermann was it before him.
1 Jan 1943: AKB in Augusta
27 Jan:  Wupperman leavs 3 S-Ftl
1 April: S 56 is sunk and raised in Palermo.

Was S 56 in Empedocle at anytime in Nov-Jan 42/43?
Could Dörr's last date (24 Jan 1943) for the bravery medal also be the date Wuppermann recived it?

The photo of Wuppermann with the medals in my last post is from Valle dei Templi outside Agriento (3 S-Ftl head quater).
The officers made a day trip to the Temples on the day Wuppermann got his medals.
I have added some photos from the same roll.
Photo with Mario Barone (italian), Unkown Oblt with camera, Adjutant Backhaus, Kplt Kemnade smoking on tha day trip.
Photo showing the tempels and the same today.


/Alo

[Urs Heßling]

moin, Alo,

leider habe ich das KTB der 3. SFltl vom Juni bis Dezember 1942 noch nicht

KTB Januar 1943
- Kemnade verläßt die Flottille am 14.1. mit S 57 und kehrt am 30.1. mit S 54 zurück.
- Seine Aktivitäten in diesen 14 Tagen werden nicht beschrieben.
- Wuppermann wird nicht erwähnt.
- S 56 aKB in Augusta (u.a. Einbau Buggeschütz, Anm.: am 1.3. versenkt in Palermo)

Gruß, Urs

[kgvm]

"mit "S 54", das zu einer Kurzreparatur in die Werft verlegt, fahre ich für einige Tage nach Sizilien, um organisatorische, personelle und Werftfragen zu regeln"
"Am 30. Januar kehre ich mit "S 54" von Porto Empedocle nach Bizerta zurück .."
Nach Friedrich Kemnade, die Afrika-Flottille, war es demnach für Hin- und Rückfahrt "S 54".

[Urs Heßling]

moin, KG,

Tja, gemäß KTB 3. SFltl (Op und Maschine) war es S 57 (siehe Anhänge)

Auch an anderen Stellen sind ihm mW in dem Buch "Erinnerungsfehler" unterlaufen.

Gruß, Urs

[alo41]

Thanks both of you!

I think the only window for both Kemnade and Wupperman in Empedocle is 14-27 Jan. 1943. The boat Wuppermann is standing on is probebly not S 56 or the photo is from Augusta and not Empedocle.

Yes, S 56 was sunk in Palermo on 1 March 1943, my misstake. I have attached a photo of it. It proves that S 56 had the shark Wappen in the Med. (Did Wuppermann have the Shark on S 60 in the Baltic?)

/Alo

[alo41]

Hi,

Here is another photo I would like to know when it was taken.

It is in Trapani.

I think the 5 officers are from left to right.

Oblt unknown, von Gernet (S 61), Haag (S 60), Brauns (S 33) and Backhaus (S 30).

My guess is that the photo was taken on 1 June 1943 when the 3 S-Ftl got there from Empedocle.

Could this be confirmed? Who is the unknown Oblt?

/Alo

[Urs Heßling]

moin, Alo,

It is in Trapani.

I think the 5 officers are from left to right.

Oblt unknown, von Gernet (S 61), Haag (S 60), Brauns (S 33) and Backhaus (S 30).

My guess is that the photo was taken on 1 June 1943 when the 3 S-Ftl got there from Empedocle.

Mit dem Datum gibt es möglicherweise ein Problem.
Die Boot, die nach Trapani einliefen, waren S 30, S 58, S 59 und S 61; möglicherweise kam S 57 (OLtzS Erdmann) beim Verlegen von PE nach Toulon auch nach Trapani.
S 56 und S 60 lagen in Toulon zu großer Reparatur,
S 33, S 36 und S 55 lagen mit Maschinenproblemen in PE.

Beim Foto kann ich von Gernet (Ähnlichkeit mit Kapitän z.S. von Stackelberg ) bestätigen, der Oberleutnant ohne EK II ganz rechts war vielleicht kein Kommandant.

Gruß, Urs

Gruß, Urs

[alo41]

Mit dem Datum gibt es möglicherweise ein Problem.
Die Boot, die nach Trapani einliefen, waren S 30, S 58, S 59 und S 61; möglicherweise kam S 57 (OLtzS Erdmann) beim Verlegen von PE nach Toulon auch nach Trapani.
S 56 und S 60 lagen in Toulon zu großer Reparatur,
S 33, S 36 und S 55 lagen mit Maschinenproblemen in PE.

Beim Foto kann ich von Gernet (Ähnlichkeit mit Kapitän z.S. von Stackelberg ) bestätigen, der Oberleutnant ohne EK II ganz rechts war vielleicht kein Kommandant.

Gruß, Urs

Thank you Urs,

The next photo on the roll shows 5 S-Boote in the port. At least two has a round radio loop.
It fits your boats.

S 30, Backhaus, Sword fish, radio loop
S 58, G. Schulz, Saw fish, radio loop
S 59, Müller, Sea lion
S 61, v. Gernet, Mermaid
S 57?, Erdmann, Dolpine

It fits badly with my officers.
Backhaus and v. Gernet are OK.

Kemnade, Müller and possibly Schulz (or is he the "unknow Oblt?) are missing. Has the Flottille commander and the ÄK gone to report the arrivel of boats? Is Schulz left on whatch on his boat in the harbour?

Why is Haag and Brauns there? I guess that Haag was on S 30 to support Backhaus (only commander since April 1943) while his S 60 was in Toulone. Brauns's S 33 was still in Empledocle. Did he join with his boat at a later date and then replaced S 57 to make it five boats? The flottille was in Trapani 1-7, 9? June 1943, Kemnade is not very clear in his book.

There is a Trapani photo in Die Afrika Flottille, page442, showing Kemnade with seven officers. I only know Müller and Bakhaus. There is also a photo of Haag (page 167) where he is not only showing the same face but is also wearing the same jacket as on the Trapani photo.

/Alo

[Urs Heßling]

moin,

Why is Haag and Brauns there? I guess that Haag was on S 30 to support Backhaus (only commander since April 1943) while his S 60 was in Toulone. Brauns's S 33 was still in Empledocle. Did he join with his boat at a later date and then replaced S 57 to make it five boats? The flottille was in Trapani 1-7, 9? June 1943, Kemnade is not very clear in his book.

S 33 war am Abend des 1.6. wieder klar, also Brauns mit Fragezeichen.

S 33 lief jedoch erst in der Nacht 8./9.6. zusammen mit S 36 (OLtzS Lüders, Führerboot der Dreiergruppe) und S 55 und 6 Booten der 7. SFltl zu einer Unternehmung aus.

In der Nacht 7./8.6. verlegten S 30, S 58, S 59 und S 61 von Trapani nach Porto Vesme (Sardinien).
In der Nach 8./9.6. Vorstoß zur Insel Cani, danach Rückkehr nach Trapani.

In der Nach 9./10.6. Vorstoß in das Seegebiet Pantelleria, danach Einlaufen in P.E.

Gruß, Urs

[alo41]

Thank you Urs,

Excelent information! I supose Brauns could have joined the other boats to Trapani on 1 June and then have gone back (over land?) to Porto Empedocle to pick up his S 33.

I have mangeded to find the 3 Schnellbootflottille headquarter. It was in Hotel des Temples (now Villa Genuardi) outside Agrigento (north of Porto Empedocle) in Valle dei Templi. There were two wooden baracks built for the men. They are now gone and there is a parking lot instead.
Photos 22 (hotel stairs to the left and baracks to the far right), 26, 28 and 14 were taken there on 31 May 1943.  There are a few othere photos showing the visit to the same place of the italian crown prince.

[Ede Kowalski]

Hallo Alo und Urs,
es ist schon Wahnsinn, was Ihr alles so ans Tageslicht befördert. Ich bin hellauf begeistert!
Herzlichen Dank
Ralf

[AndreasB]

Schöne und interessante Bilder, danke fürs Einstellen!

Alles Gute

Andreas