Sinking of Citta di Palermo by Proteus - who was she carrying?

Begonnen von AndreasB, 31 Mai 2012, 10:20:30

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AndreasB

Citta di Palermo was sunk on 5 Jan 42 off Cape Dukato with the loss of over 600 men of her crew and embarked troops. Does anyone know which unit was embarked on her and where they were being sent to? In particular if they were meant to be reinforcements for North Africa (Argostoli was a staging port for supply).

http://www.wrecksite.eu/wreck.aspx?98729

Many thanks in advance!

All the best

Andreas

Ritchie

Hallo Andreas,

die italienische Wiki http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citt%C3%A0_di_Palermo_(incrociatore_ausiliario_1930)

gibt die Verluste mit 921 Mann an, wobei nur 60 Überlebende geborgen werden konnten. Fahrziel war Patras an der griechischen Westküste.

Bei einer früheren Fahrt wurden 428 deutsche und 260 italienische Soldaten nach Bengasi gebracht.

Grüße

Ritchie


AndreasB

Moin

Danke! Die hatte ich auch. Anderswo hatte ich 600 italienische Soldaten gelesen. Aber die fruehere Mission nach Benghasi laesst mich denken das es sich hier vielleicht auch um einen Nordafrikatransport handelte?

Es gab wirklich einige verlustreiche Schiffsversenkungen waehrend CRUSADER, ausser Barham, Neptune, und den beiden italienischen Kreuzern:

Sebastiano Venier (300 (?) Commonwealth + Achse?)
Shuntien (1.100? siehe --/>/> hier)
Citta di Palermo (600?)
Nach dem Abschluss von CRUSADER aber noch mit Gefangenen der Operation:
Ariosto (138 Commonwealth + Achse ?)
Tembien (390 Commonwealth + Achse ?)

Also wohl deutlich ueber 2,000 Gefallene.

Alles Gute

Andreas

Enrico Cernuschi

No mission to Benghazi. The Città di Palermo was escorting the motor ship Calino bound to the Dodecanese and was ferrying in the meanwhile, from Brindisi to Patrasso, about "600 militari di passaggio" i.e. troops coming back from leave or sickness in Italy or dispatched to Greece not in a single unit, but as passengers. Ufficio Storico della Marina Militare, La difesa del traffico con l'Albania, la Grecia e l'Egeo, Rome, 1965, pages 120 - 121.     

      Greetings

       Enrico


Enrico Cernuschi


Darius

Zitat von: AndreasB am 31 Mai 2012, 15:47:39
Ariosto (138 Commonwealth + Achse ?)

Hallo Andreas,

lt. dem Buch "Britain´s Fleet Air Arm in World War II", S. 104, werden die Verluste an Menschenleben mit "over 400" angegeben. Darunter die brit. und Commonwealth Kriegsgefangenen.


Vielleicht haben sich in den letzten acht Jahren weitere Quellen zu diesem Fall ergeben?


:MG:

Darius

AndreasB

Thanks Darius.

I consider that number unlikely, as the only Axis losses would have been guards and AA crew?

Does anyone have an escort report on the sinking of Ariosto?

All the best

Andreas

Darius

Hi AdreasB,

looks at this ASA dataset:
--/>/> https://www.historisches-marinearchiv.de/projekte/asa/ausgabe.php?where_value=2211

ZitatKonvoi-Bezeichnung :   13/1700 Tripolis-Palermo 16/1500
Zusammensetzung Konvoi :   ATLAS, ARIOSTO / DD PREMUDA, TB POLLUCE
Bemerkungen :   Von 294 Kriegsgefangenen an Bord ertranken 130 Mann
.


Regards

Darius

Darius

ZitatThe  Ariosto  departed  from  Tripoli  at  18:00 of  13  February  directed  to  Trapani  with  aboard 34 men of  the  crew, 294 prisoners of  war, 23  soldiers  to  escort  the  prisoners  and 59  soldiers  in passage.  It  was  escorted  by  the  DD  Premuda  (Commander  Bartalesi)  and was  previewed  that  it  was joined  in the course of  the  night  by  the German steamboat  Atlas, of  smaller  speed,  departing  from Tripoli  at  18:00 with  the  escort  of  the  TB  Polluce  (Lieutenant  Burattini).   In effects  the  meeting  between the two  groups only  happened  in  the morning  of  the 14th after  a  navigation tormented enough for  both, because  of  the insistent  aerial  attacks  but  that  did not have consequences.   Joined  the two  steamboats  in only  navigation  formation of  the convoy  continued  like  per orders of  Supermarina,  and  under  the guide of  the  Premuda, along  the coastal  routes  of  Tunisia.   To  the  little  fast  convoys, like this of  the  Ariosto,  it  was prescribed to  be  sailing  along  the coasts of  Tunisia  because  one presumed that  those  waters were  less  than  others  infested  by submarines  and  flown  over  by  enemy  aircrafts;  it  was  believed moreover  that  ships  that  they  were kept  under  the coast  were  difficultly  to  locate  from  part  of  nocturnal  airplane  equipped  with  radar.   According  to  supposition  answered  certainly  to the truth of  the  things, not  therefore before  - that  one  that  referred  to the  activity  of  the submarines  -  since in  effects  the British  submarines, but particular  cases, had  faculty  to move itself  with much latitude in  vast  stretch  of  water,  and  in such stretch of  water  they  acted  according  to  the  inspiration  of  the  commander. The  P.  38, as  an example, on  the  evening  on the  14th  sank  the  Ariosto  under  the  Tunisian  coast, after  a few  days  it  was  in  turn sunk,  as  we  will  see,  off  the  coast  of  Misurata.   During  the  day  of  the 14th  the convoy  navigated  at  a  speed a  little  advanced  to 9  knots holding  the  line ahead;  in  the  evening  the  two steamboats  be  disposed online of  row.   A little after  22:00,  in  the night  illumed, but  clear, the  Ariosto  was hit  to  stern  from  the torpedo of  a submarine  not  sighted  from  the  escort  ships;  soon  after  a  second  torpedo exploded  on the  side  of  the  cargo vessel.  The  Ariosto  sank  approximately  three  hours after  to  have been torpedoed. Of  the 410 men who were  aboard, the  escort  ships  succeeded to  save 252
.   

THE ITALIAN  NAVY  IN  THE SECOND  WORLD WAR. Volume  VII. THE DEFENSE OF THE TRAFFIC WITH NORTH AFRICA FROM 10 OCTOBER 1941  TO  30  SEPTEMBER  1942, ed. 1976.


:MG:

Darius

AndreasB

Hi Darius

I was wondering about the numbers given in the FAA book, which seemed high and are not aligned with the other sources. Thanks for posting this!

The late Don Edy of No. 33 Squadron was a POW on Ariosto and survived her sinking.

http://www.goonintheblock.com

All the best

Andreas

Platon Alexiades

Hi Andreas,

There were 168 military passengers on the Città di Palermo, mostly from 109th and 265th Infantry Regiment, 35th and 36th Artillery, Engineer and assorted units. Of these, 96 were killed or missing.

The passengers also included an air component (103 men of the Regio Aeroporto No. 216 unit, 23 men of Caserma Cavour and 64 men from assorted units) and 3 men of the harbour militia. I regret that I do not have a breakdown of their casualties.

The air component had Rhodes as ultimate destination. The military component had probably the same destination but the Città di Palermo file does not seem to specify it.

Best regards,

Platon


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