collapse

* Benutzer Info

 
 
Willkommen Gast. Bitte einloggen oder registrieren. Haben Sie Ihre Aktivierungs E-Mail übersehen?

* Suchfunktion


* HMA

Autor Thema: U-Boot H.M.S.. "Tarpon" gefunden  (Gelesen 4267 mal)

0 Mitglieder und 1 Gast betrachten dieses Thema.

Offline JensA

  • Stabsbootsmann
  • *
  • Beiträge: 114
U-Boot H.M.S.. "Tarpon" gefunden
« am: 24 März 2016, 18:12:49 »
Hallo,

Der Wrack des englischen U-Boots H.M.S. "Tarpon" wurde neulich vor der dänische Westküste westlich Thyborøn gefunden. Sehen Video im Link unten:

http://jyllands-posten.dk/kultur/ECE8523864/se-video-dykkere-har-fundet-ubaad-fra-anden-verdenskrig-i-dansk-farvand/

mfg.
Jens

Offline JensA

  • Stabsbootsmann
  • *
  • Beiträge: 114

Offline Platon Alexiades

  • Seekadett
  • *
  • Beiträge: 191
Re: U-Boot H.M.S.. "Tarpon" gefunden
« Antwort #2 am: 11 Mai 2016, 14:54:01 »
This is very interesting! I wonder why it took so much time to find this wreck? I had published an article in the Supplement of the World Ship Society nearly 40 years ago refuting the belief at the time that Tarpon had been sunk by the minesweeper M-6. I had suggested that she was probably the victim of the Q-ship Schiff 40. My finding was communicated to Robert M. Coppock of the Naval Historical Branch. I think this was the only case of a submarine being sunk by a Q-ship in WW2. The position given by Schiff 40 was 56°43.5' N, 06°33' E. Was the wreck found near this spot or did the submarine survive to be sunk elsewhere? Please let me know.

In a study made by the Kriegsmarine after Weserübung of A/S attacks on enemy submarines, the attack by Schiff 40 was missed.This was probably the cause why the attack by Schiff 40 remained forgotten for over 30 years.  An administration error? Schiff 40 was herself torpedoed by HMS Sunfish on 13 April and became a total loss.

Platon

Offline Urs Heßling

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Beiträge: 13681
  • Always look on the bright side of Life
Re: U-Boot H.M.S.. "Tarpon" gefunden
« Antwort #3 am: 11 Mai 2016, 18:43:19 »
hi, Platon,

Schiff 40 was herself torpedoed by HMS Sunfish on 13 April and became a total loss.
May I ask you, please, to elucidate ?
AFAIK, Schürbeck was torpedoed.
A "total loss" in German stands for "Ship and crew lost" (like, e.g. Z 3 Max Schultz)
Or is this meant to be a "constructive total loss (CTL)", i.e. ship considered unworthy for repair ?

greetings, Urs
"History will tell lies, Sir, as usual" - General "Gentleman Johnny" Burgoyne zu seiner Niederlage bei Saratoga 1777 im Amerikanischen Unabhängigkeitskrieg - nicht in Wirklichkeit, aber in George Bernard Shaw`s Bühnenstück "The Devil`s Disciple"

Offline JensA

  • Stabsbootsmann
  • *
  • Beiträge: 114
Re: U-Boot H.M.S.. "Tarpon" gefunden
« Antwort #4 am: 11 Mai 2016, 20:16:58 »
Hello Urs,

It would seem that you are right that "Schiff 40"/"Schürbeck" did not become a "loss". It was only damaged by the torpedo, and according to Gröner, it came back in service as "Sperrbrecher 18".

No German sailors were killed nor wounded, but the captain was thrown overboard by the explosion.

Unfortunately the position of the wreck of »Tarpon« isn't given precisely - it only says "off Thyborøn". But that sound quite reasonable, as "Schiff 40" gave the position of the sinking of a submarine as: 56 degr. 43,5 N, 6 degr. 33,5.

See reports from RM 102/3744 below.
Unfortunately, I don't have the pages from the KTB about the sinking, as my primary interest is the fighting inside the Kattegat and the Skagerrak - and photocopies from Freiburg are expensive.

Best regards
Jens

PS
I am sorry for the cut up pages, but they are screen prints from a PDF.
« Letzte Änderung: 11 Mai 2016, 20:50:29 von JensA »

Offline Platon Alexiades

  • Seekadett
  • *
  • Beiträge: 191
Re: U-Boot H.M.S.. "Tarpon" gefunden
« Antwort #5 am: 11 Mai 2016, 20:17:28 »
Hi Urs,

Sorry for the misunderstanding but it means a constructive total loss in this case.

Best regards,

Platon

Offline Urs Heßling

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Beiträge: 13681
  • Always look on the bright side of Life
Re: U-Boot H.M.S.. "Tarpon" gefunden
« Antwort #6 am: 11 Mai 2016, 20:23:52 »
hi, Jens,
very good top top :MG:

.. and photocopies from Freiburg are expensive.
Don't tell me  :wink: :-D :sonstige_154:

hi, Platon,
Thank you :MG:
but ..
.. it means a constructive total loss in this case.
according to the sources provided by Jens top not even that ... she seems to have come back.

greetings, Urs
"History will tell lies, Sir, as usual" - General "Gentleman Johnny" Burgoyne zu seiner Niederlage bei Saratoga 1777 im Amerikanischen Unabhängigkeitskrieg - nicht in Wirklichkeit, aber in George Bernard Shaw`s Bühnenstück "The Devil`s Disciple"

Offline Platon Alexiades

  • Seekadett
  • *
  • Beiträge: 191
Re: U-Boot H.M.S.. "Tarpon" gefunden
« Antwort #7 am: 13 Mai 2016, 16:45:24 »
Do you know when she came back in service as Sperrbrecher 18?
The KTB of Schiff 40 is in T1022/3052. I only have a film copy (not digital) but if someone is interested I could photograph the pages concerning the attack on TARPON directly from the microfilm reader screen. The results are not very good but readable.I do not have time to go to a service that does digital copy from microfilm.

Best regards,

Platon

Offline JensA

  • Stabsbootsmann
  • *
  • Beiträge: 114
Re: U-Boot H.M.S.. "Tarpon" gefunden
« Antwort #8 am: 13 Mai 2016, 21:54:01 »
Hello Platon,

As far as I can see from my notes Gröner states that it was repaired in the time 10.9.-19.12.40.

I would be very interested in the pages concerning the attack on "Tarpon".

Best regards
Jens

Offline Platon Alexiades

  • Seekadett
  • *
  • Beiträge: 191
Re: U-Boot H.M.S.. "Tarpon" gefunden
« Antwort #9 am: 14 Mai 2016, 14:16:30 »
Hello Jens,

Thank you for your answer. I have taken the photographs from the pages of KTB Schiff 40 but the size is greater than that allowed on this forum (max. 450 KB) and there is a map which will not be very readable at low resolution. You (and anyone else interested) can contact me by email and I will send you a Dropbox link so you can download them.
palexiad@sympatico.ca

Best regards,

Platon

Offline de domenico

  • Fähnrich
  • *
  • Beiträge: 276
Re: U-Boot H.M.S.. "Tarpon" gefunden
« Antwort #10 am: 14 Mai 2016, 18:52:07 »
According to Peter Arndt, "Deutsche Sperrbrecher 1914-1945", SCHIFF 40 (covername TRANSPORTSCHIFF (K) 1) was towed into harbour after her torpedoing on 12.4.1940, decommissioned and converted into a VES (Voraus-Eigenschutz)-Sperrbrecher, recommissioned at Wesermuende on 31.12.1940 as SPERRBRECHER 18 with the 3. SpbrFl.

Offline Platon Alexiades

  • Seekadett
  • *
  • Beiträge: 191
Re: U-Boot H.M.S.. "Tarpon" gefunden
« Antwort #11 am: 14 Mai 2016, 19:05:25 »
Thank you Francesco for the details on Sperrbrecher 18. As you know my naval library is temporarily away due so I do not have access to all my books.

Best wishes,

Platon

Offline Darius

  • Boardinventar
  • *
  • Beiträge: 4854
    • Chronik des Seekrieges
Re: U-Boot H.M.S.. "Tarpon" gefunden
« Antwort #12 am: 17 Juni 2016, 23:22:21 »
Hallo zusammen,

hatte schon vergessen, dass es noch zum Thema "Schiff 40" dieses Werk gibt:
 --/>/> Meine Kriegserlebnisse auf U-Boot-Falle "Schiff 40" und auf Minenschiff "Brummer"

 :MG:

Darius

Offline JensA

  • Stabsbootsmann
  • *
  • Beiträge: 114
Re: U-Boot H.M.S.. "Tarpon" gefunden
« Antwort #13 am: 29 August 2016, 08:49:22 »
Hallo,

Gestern hat Danmark Radio eine Live-Sendung aus dem Wrack von HMS "Tarpon" gemacht.

Das Programm war sehr unordentlich und schlecht ausgelegt. Aber die Bilder waren natürlich interessant, und sie wurden auch ab und zu von einen qualifizierter Engländer kommentiert.

https://www.dr.dk/tv/se/live-fra-dybet/live-fra-dybet

mfg.
Jens

Offline kalli

  • Co Administrator
  • *
  • Beiträge: 7070
Re: U-Boot H.M.S.. "Tarpon" gefunden
« Antwort #14 am: 29 August 2016, 13:44:45 »
Danke Jens für den Link, wirklich gute Unterwasseraufnahmen. Nur der Moderator im blauen T-shirt hat mich ein wenig gestört, auch wenn ich nicht verstanden habe, was er von sich gab.