2. and 8. Artillerieträgerflottille. Channel. August - september 1944.

[cam]

Hi.

The article about the French destroyer "La Combattante" written:
In the night of 25-26 August 1944, she sank four German ships ferrying an artillery unit.
http://www.gutenberg.us/articles/french_destroyer_la_combattante
Here
http://www.historisches-marinearchiv.de/projekte/landungsfahrzeuge/marinefaehrprahm/ausgabe.php?where_value=936
written
25./26.08.1944 In der Nacht wird die 8. Artillerieträger-Flottille bei Fécamp von alliierten Seestreitkräften angegriffen. AF 110, AF 97, AF 105 und AF 111 gehen verloren, AF 101 und AF 109 werden eingebracht, letztere im Schlepp von S 174.
All German ships sank a French destroyer? How many were German ships?

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[t-geronimo]

War diary 8. Artillerieträgerflottilla.

No time to translate. 

[cam]

 

Thank you very much!

cam

[Urs Heßling]

moin,

25./26.08.1944 In der Nacht wird die 8. Artillerieträger-Flottille bei Fécamp von alliierten Seestreitkräften angegriffen. AF 110, AF 97, AF 105 und AF 111 gehen verloren, AF 101 und AF 109 werden eingebracht, letztere im Schlepp von S 174.
All German ships sank [by] a French destroyer?

No.
Look in the book, the "Chronik des Seekriegs" 

In der Nacht vom 25./26.8. wird die 8. Artillerieträger-Flottille bei Fécamp von der Fregatte Thornborough (LtCdr. C.G.H. Brown) mit einer Schnellbootgruppe (Lt. Dixon) mit MTB 450, MTB 481 und MTB 482, dem franz. Zerstörer La Combattante (Cdr. Patou) mit einer Schnellbootgruppe (Lt. Shaw) mit MTB 253, MTB 257 und MTB 254 sowie von der Fregatte Seymour (Lt. Parry) mit einer US Schnellbootgruppe mit PT 519, PT 513 und PT 516 angegriffen. AF 110, AF 97, AF 105 und AF 111 gehen verloren.
[end quote]

Gruß, Urs

[cam]

Hi,

Here is a description of yet another battle

Wartime Activities
24-5/8/44 The 8th Artillery carrier flotilla takes the nights supply missions to Le Havre. They are
By PT 250, PT 511 and PT 514
Then HMS Seymour, MTB 257, MTB 256, MTB 254 and MTB 252
By another group MTB 452, MTB 447 and MTB 453
Finally by HMS Talybont, HMS Retalick, MTB 205, MTB 209 and MTB 210
MTB 447, MTB 452 and MTB 453 attack the convoy previously attacked by MTB 254, MTB 256 and MTB 257. MTB 447, MTB 452 and MTB 453 are beaten off but return, engage R Boats and severely damage two of them.
MTB 205, MTB 209 and MTB 210 also attack the convoy.
MTB 205, MTB 209 and MTB 210 attack the convoy previously attacked by MTB 254, MTB 256 and MTB 257 then MTB 447, MTB 452 and MTB 453. MTB 205, MTB 209 and MTB 210 are initially beaten off by five TLCs armed with 88mm guns but return and fire six torpedoes. MTB 210 sinks a TLC.
S 91 is sunk by HMS Tallybont and HMS Retalick north of Fecamp. German report says heavily damaged and scuttled, in addition, M 3857 / Rotherbaum sunk. V 243 is damaged and AF 103 is lost on a mine.

How AF participated in the battle and what sank the British?

cam

[t-geronimo]

Two groups from 8. AF participated.

664: overview for that night.
01-03: first group
11-12: second group

Sorry, no better quality.

[cam]

Thank you very much!
I'll translate.

cam

[cam]

Hi,

Because all the information is not clear what the British ships attacked first, and which second group.

cam

[cam]

Hi,

Wartime Activities
26-7/8/44 HMS Retalick (Lt. Brownrigg) with MTB 208 and MTB 210, as well as HMS Middleton (Lt. Cox) with MTB 252, MTB 256, PT 520, PT 511 and PT 514 are in action with the Eighth Gunboat Flottilla and the Fourteenth R Boat Flottilla an. AF 13, AF 98 and AF 108 are sunk.

Americans write
The enemy's last attempt to reinforce LeHavre was made on the night of August 26/27, when a group of tank landing craft escorted by R-boats were attacked first by 2 MTB's, then by the destroyer HMS Middleton, and finally by 2 more MTB's. The upshot of this complicated action, according to German records, was the loss of two tank landing craft, AF-98 and AF-108. Lieutenant Saltsman led the PT attack in Lieutenant (jg.) Fowler's PT 514, with Lieutenant (jg.) Taft's PT 511 and Lt. (jg.) William F. Ryder's PT 520. Vectored onto their targets by the Retalick, the PT's fired six torpedoes and started their retirement without discovery. "PT's were rewarded with a tremendous explosion in target area," Saltsman reported, "followed by sparks and debris; a second explosion was observed soon after, not as large as the first. PT's by this time had turned stern to target and were idling away. After the explosion occurred, the enemy convoy opened up with gunfire attack on PT's, distance 2,500 yards. PT's continued to idle away, not returning fire because of inaccuracy of enemy gunfire. PT's were then illuminated and began retirement at 43 knots. PT's were subjected to intense, accurate and heavy-caliber gunfire until range became 4 miles. Several shells fell within 20 yards of PT 514. No damage was sustained."

How many German ships participated in the battle? Where and when was lost AF-13 of the 2th AF-Flotilla?

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[bettika61]

Here http://www.historisches-marinearchiv.de/projekte/landungsfahrzeuge/marinefaehrprahm/ausgabe.php?where_value=354
You can see the different sources about AF 13

[cam]

Yes, I see.
Therefore it is better to know what is written in the KTB.

cam

[t-geronimo]

AF 13 was sunk 29.07.1944 by air attack, see below no. 240 and 242.


AF 98 and AF 108 were sunk by torpedoes on 26.08.1944, see 001-003.


Some websites have to be corrected. 

[cam]

Hi,
Thank you very much. Great information!

cam

[t-geronimo]

May I ask what you do with all these information and documents?
Is it all for private research purposes or for a website or book?

[cam]

Of course.
It's my hobby. This is my researches on the information, which I think is inaccurate. Examples of such information I give.
Do not be surprised. I have such a lot of works, but in Ukraine it is not interesting, but in Russia the British and German Coastal Forces too, no one is interested.

cam